New ECF grades are now online.

General discussions about ratings.
Jon D'Souza-Eva

Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Jon D'Souza-Eva » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:59 pm

Richard Haddrell. I think the only time I've ever emailed Richard is to let him know about a player passing away.

Simon Dixon
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Simon Dixon » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:20 am

Anthony.Ibbitson wrote:Well done Simon for hitting 140! That's the mark I was hoping to reach, I'm going to push hard for 150 next season instead!
Having beaten a CM and an IM this season, I thought it would be much higher. :o

Simon Dixon
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Simon Dixon » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:25 am

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote:Richard Haddrell. I think the only time I've ever emailed Richard is to let him know about a player passing away.
The final flag fall, no arbiter required.

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John Upham
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:59 am

Paul McKeown wrote:I noticed a player who passed away last season being listed, whereas in the past I have seen something like "Name (deceased)". I assume this is simply a case of not being informed. Who should I let know?
Richard Haddrell would be the best person to know about this.
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John Charman
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by John Charman » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:25 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:I noticed a player who passed away last season being listed, whereas in the past I have seen something like "Name (deceased)". I assume this is simply a case of not being informed. Who should I let know?
I always find Richard Haddrell is the best for getting that done [email protected]

John Charman
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by John Charman » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:29 am

Why is it that every year a big thing is made of getting the new grades out in time for the British but the tournament uses last years grades. I appreciate that for entry qualifiction you can obviously only use last years grades and realise it is not practical to change them before starting play, I merely wondered why every year the comment 'the grades are out in time for the British' or some such is made and what it's relevance is.

Sean Hewitt

Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:50 am

John Charman wrote:Why is it that every year a big thing is made of getting the new grades out in time for the British but the tournament uses last years grades. I appreciate that for entry qualifiction you can obviously only use last years grades and realise it is not practical to change them before starting play, I merely wondered why every year the comment 'the grades are out in time for the British' or some such is made and what it's relevance is.
In previous years the tournaments (the non-FIDE rated ones) have used the new grades for pairing purposes. The fact that they haven't this year seems to have been

a) Not announced anywhere
b) A surprise to everyone
c) Not yet explained

John Charman
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by John Charman » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:07 am

In previous years the tournaments (the non-FIDE rated ones) have used the new grades for pairing purposes. The fact that they haven't this year seems to have been

a) Not announced anywhere
b) A surprise to everyone
c) Not yet explained[/quote]

Oh dear, maybe they are using them for pairing then I was just looking at the entrants list and they were old grades.

Mind you that begs the question what happened in previous yeras if you crossed a grading boundary when the new grades came out as you may have entered the under 180's for instance and then on the new grades been above 180.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:20 am

John Charman wrote:Mind you that begs the question what happened in previous yeras if you crossed a grading boundary when the new grades came out as you may have entered the under 180's for instance and then on the new grades been above 180.
I don't think anything has changed. The eligibility for the grade restricted events continues to be the grade in the previous list (July 2010). Presumably it will change next year to be the grade from the January 2012 list.

This year the grades were released at about midday on the first Sunday of the British. I could believe that they are using "old" grades for the seeded pairings in the first week events because the official release of the grades was timed too late for the logistics of preparing entrant lists and publishing first round pairings.

This will become an issue for tournaments taking place in the first half of 2012. When preparing their entry forms, what should they say about eligibility and grades to be used for seeded pairings? They cannot totally rule out, that the whole exercise might not happen - that's what transpired the last time the BCF tried to make six monthly grades work.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:51 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:This will become an issue for tournaments taking place in the first half of 2012. When preparing their entry forms, what should they say about eligibility and grades to be used for seeded pairings? They cannot totally rule out, that the whole exercise might not happen - that's what transpired the last time the BCF tried to make six monthly grades work.
They can choose what they say - for instance they could say that 'for the purpose of this tournament the [insert date] list will be used to determine eligibility for graded sections' and ignore the new grades.

My feeling, as someone who is used to running rapidplay events (grades come out twice a year already) every month, is that most tournaments should say that the 'most recent' ECF list will be used to determine eligibility - but only if they have an Open section to bump up any players who find their grade has shot up. This is to avoid, for instance, a 199 entering an Under 200 event, then being refused entry at the last minute. Previously ungraded players should be placed in the appropriate section.

The only downside to this is that a player might enter a tournament and find that they are pushed up a section - which is fair enough. They might also find that their grade goes down, but I would normally keep them in the section that they entered until told otherwise.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:22 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:The fact that they haven't this year seems to have been

a) Not announced anywhere
b) A surprise to everyone
c) Not yet explained
I thought it may have been because it helped prevent arguments when people saw someone was 169A in an Under 160 event, because they've improved in the last 12 months. So the arguments about "That's not fair, he's above the grading limit!" has been replaced by "Why aren't they using the new grades for pairings?!"

Can't win. :)

Sean Hewitt

Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:56 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:The fact that they haven't this year seems to have been

a) Not announced anywhere
b) A surprise to everyone
c) Not yet explained
I thought it may have been because it helped prevent arguments when people saw someone was 169A in an Under 160 event, because they've improved in the last 12 months. So the arguments about "That's not fair, he's above the grading limit!" has been replaced by "Why aren't they using the new grades for pairings?!"

Can't win. :)
You might be right, but we'd know if it had been announced. There was some discussion in the bar last night as to what pairing rules were being used in the Championship. I said British, the players said FIDE. I can't find it specified anywhere to be honest. Whilst I think some people like to argue, most just like to know what's happening.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:26 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: You might be right, but we'd know if it had been announced. There was some discussion in the bar last night as to what pairing rules were being used in the Championship. I said British, the players said FIDE. I can't find it specified anywhere to be honest. Whilst I think some people like to argue, most just like to know what's happening.
The Chess Arbiters' Association website has the 2009 UK pairing rules http://chessarbiters.co.uk/pairings.aspx and these mention the British Championship. However they don't mention acceleration. The rules actually in use seem somewhat elusive as far as being documented on websites.

Accelerated pairings aren't being used with any great consistency. For example they're used in the British but not in the Major Open. 5 round events with more than 32 players aren't using them.

Sean Hewitt

Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:34 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Accelerated pairings aren't being used with any great consistency. For example they're used in the British but not in the Major Open. 5 round events with more than 32 players aren't using them.
Agreed, which is why it would be useful to know the rationale for using them. Every single player that I have spoken to has been unanimous in their condemnation of the use of accelerated pairings. In the face of that, you'd hope the rationale for using them might be clearly laid out and explained.

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John Upham
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Re: New ECF grades are now online.

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: Every single player that I have spoken to has been unanimous in their condemnation of the use of accelerated pairings. In the face of that, you'd hope the rationale for using them might be clearly laid out and explained.
During the round three commentary Nigel was very vocal and detailed as to why the players do not want this pairing method.
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