Birth year of chess players

[Alex Holowczak]

I guess all adult members could enter their birth date as the 1st January and the year born, whilst Juniors could enter their term start date, and only an unlucky few would then have sleepless nights about being hacked!!
Sorry John.

Actually, 1st January is a reserved date, according to the Graders Guide. It was designed for anyone who was born in a particular school year, but the player's birthdate remains unknown. For example, in a National Schools match. If someone was born in the academic year 1999/2000, and the DoB was not reported, they'd go into the database as 01/01/2000.

Anyone actually born on 01/01/2000, would go into the database as 02/01/2000.

I leave the reader to work out what players born on 02/01/2000 would go into the database as.

I'm sure there are far more people with 01/01 birthdates these days, who have acquired it by accident. If you FIDE-rate an event using certain software, when you import a player from the FIDE-rating list, it will inherit the year, and if that person was foreign and hadn't played ECF-graded chess before, then he will end up going in the database with a date of birth of 01/01.

[John McKenna]

I cannot be serious. [John Mc...]

[Ian Thompson]

So while a lawyer may well get excited about the prospect of a DPA lawsuit, it's worth remembering that people couldn't actually give a fig.

Where I am there are people who care. I got the league rules changed a few years ago to say that dates of birth had to be provided for all new players. A couple of years ago someone went to the trouble of getting that rule removed for adults, which suggests it was more than a "don't care" attitude, it was more "I really don't like this rule".

[Alex Holowczak]

So while a lawyer may well get excited about the prospect of a DPA lawsuit, it's worth remembering that people couldn't actually give a fig.

Where I am there are people who care. I got the league rules changed a few years ago to say that dates of birth had to be provided for all new players. A couple of years ago someone went to the trouble of getting that rule removed for adults, which suggests it was more than a "don't care" attitude, it was more "I really don't like this rule".

On what basis were they objecting to the original rule? Do you know whether it was anything to do with Data Protection? Could they have voted for it because they thought it simply made their administration easier, because they didn't have to bother finding out players' dates of birth?

[John Foley]

With just three pieces of data: postcode, gender and date of birth it is possible to identify around 87% of the population in the USA. This is likely to be a higher percentage in the UK since postcodes resolve to only 26 people on average. This much follows directly from information theory.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/p ... nd-privacy

Eventually more and more chess players will resist age disclosure. To preserve privacy, it would be better if ECF/FIDE did not publish ages. Of course DOBs are useful for grading purposes but they should be collected on a non-distribution basis. It is only a matter of time before the lawyers get involved (including me).

The ECF graders should show that they have thought seriously about alternative ways of uniquely identifying individuals and explain why the present information-rich method is necessary.

[Alex Holowczak]

Eventually more and more chess players will resist age disclosure.

Will they really? An increasing number of young people disclose this information on Facebook, so I don't see why they'd see it fit to post in the public domain on one hand, but be reluctant to hide it on another less public front.

With just three pieces of data: postcode, gender and date of birth it is possible to identify around 87% of the population in the USA.

The grading database already shows gender, age and club. So it's perhaps not as restrictive as a postcode, but those three pieces of information are already there. The grading system has presumably relied on these (plus grading references) since the system's inception, both on paper and online. I can't believe people would have had these fears 30 years ago, as they trawled through their hard copy of the grading list to find their names.

I'm not sure I fully understand why my date of birth, gender and place of residence is particularly valuable information to anyone, such that I should go to extraordinary measures to hide it from people.

[John Foley]

Alex,

The issue is identity fraud http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/fraud_pro ... tity_fraud

What "young people" do on Facebook is hardly a justification for not having a privacy policy: and they may live to regret it. Also the ECF database shows that there are vastly more older than younger people who play chess competitively.

30 years ago organised crime did not have electronic databases of credit card and bank details. The date of birth can be the one missing piece of data to open or access a bank account.

http://ivebeenmugged.typepad.com/my_web ... 90122.html

Better start looking for an alternative process..

[Alex Holowczak]

What "young people" do on Facebook is hardly a justification for not having a privacy policy: and they may live to regret it. Also the ECF database shows that there are vastly more older than younger people who play chess competitively.

I'm not suggesting that it isn't a justification for not having a privacy policy.

A date of birth is often well-known information. Famous people - who are far more at risk of identity theft than you or I - have a date of birth that is usually in the public domain. If I wanted to know the dates of birth of Mickey Adams and Nigel Short, I could do so easily enough by looking at wikipedia. If I wanted to know the dates of birth of, say, Beyonce Knowles and Lady Gaga, then I could find this information out even more easily.

Facebook has a privacy policy, as does the ECF, no doubt. The ECF just publishes the age for juniors, and indeed FIDE publishes their year of birth. Having looked around other sports governing bodies, FIDE's practice seems in line with things like the LTA.

My bank's security questions of choice are not what my date of birth is, but things like my mother's maiden name, where I was born, my favourite car, my favourite book or my favourite sport team. Of course you don't have to answer those questions correctly; you can make anything up. It'd take a while before a would-be fraudster guesses that my favourite sport team is the Wollongong Wolves, or something obscure (for an Englishman!) like that.

I think if people want to steal my identity, they can do so easily enough regardless of what I do. So it's not something I'm going to spend my time worrying about.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Putting together the above information produces an interesting infographic comparing the present situation with a decade ago

That's a nice graph, but I'm trying to relate it to my own grading history. In 2002 I was ECF 145 and aged 24/25. In 2012, I'm 34/35 and ECF 171 (allegedly). Is it not possible to do further analysis and determine whether the 'peak' age is different for those with lower and higher grades?

[Paul Buswell]

So while a lawyer may well get excited about the prospect of a DPA lawsuit, it's worth remembering that people couldn't actually give a fig.

Where I am there are people who care. I got the league rules changed a few years ago to say that dates of birth had to be provided for all new players. A couple of years ago someone went to the trouble of getting that rule removed for adults, which suggests it was more than a "don't care" attitude, it was more "I really don't like this rule".

On what basis were they objecting to the original rule? Do you know whether it was anything to do with Data Protection? Could they have voted for it because they thought it simply made their administration easier, because they didn't have to bother finding out players' dates of birth?

The Kent League controller asks for juniors' dates of birth when we register players. Although our Club (Hastings & St. Leonards) has the information - at least in the case of juniors seeking age-related concessionary subs - I routinely refuse to give the League the information. I have not received the juniors' permission to give it, nor do I see any League rule mandating it.

PB

[Alex Holowczak]

I have not received the juniors' permission to give it, nor do I see any League rule mandating it.

At which point, if you asked them whether they can pass this information on to the League, so they can pass it on to the ECF for grading purposes, they'd say yes. At least, every person I've ever asked that question to has said yes.

It also means the juniors in your club, if their date of birth is not known to the ECF, will have a grade which is either 5 or 10 lower than it should be.

When I pick junior county teams, the grading reference is my main source for finding players. If they're not flagged as juniors, they probably won't get picked. So they'll miss out. This may or may not be an issue for them.

When registering people for the Birmingham League, I don't quote a date of birth if the ECF already knows what it is. I just quote a grading reference instead, which is the information they actually want to know.

[Adam Raoof]

It is crucially important that the graders obtain dates of birth for any player without a grading code, especially juniors. Thereafter it isn't necessary to ask for proof of ID, except in extreme cases where a player is supected of impersonating another player - it has happened!

In the future it should be mandatory for anyone entering a tournament to quote their grading code, membership number, or their full contact details and date of birth.

At the moment a lot of players do not understand the difference between the grading code and their membership number, but I hope that will change.

[E Michael White]

It is crucially important that the graders obtain dates of birth for any player without a grading code, especially juniors.

Why ?

When you take a date of birth what is it checked against ? Data is only ever useful when checked against other data and a decision then made.

[Roger de Coverly]

In the future it should be mandatory for anyone entering a tournament to quote their grading code, membership number, or their full contact details and date of birth.

Why not ask for photo id and a utility bill as well? It's a chess tournament, supposedly a leisure activity. Tournament and other organisers should be cautious about asking for unnecessary personal information as they may be be challenged, as seen on this thread, by those who have concerns about privacy and identity theft.

[Adam Raoof]

It is crucially important that the graders obtain dates of birth for any player without a grading code, especially juniors.

Why ?

I forgot to add: gender.