Birth year of chess players

[Roger de Coverly]

Those born in the 70's (like me) would have the Kasparov as opposed to Fischer effect. In the 80's there were chess programs on TV but after Short in 90's their is very little chess inspiration which is perhaps why a lot of people of my generation who I used to go to the club with stopped.

The point perhaps is that if we went back ten years and analysed the data from 2001, there would be a peak at a year of birth of 1990 instead of a minimum.

[Roger de Coverly]

The point perhaps is that if we went back ten years and analysed the data from 2001, there would be a peak at a year of birth of 1990 instead of a minimum.

The grading list published in 2002 includes an analysis based on the 2001 Master list.

This only had birth dates for about a third of the players.

Analysed by Age Group, this is what it said

Age Group Number Games played Average grade
under 11 109 2120 60
11-14 583 11746 83
15-17 415 8612 109
18-20 254 4093 126
21-30 415 7871 149
31-40 619 14887 145
41-50 679 17404 135
50-59 461 12099 117
60-69 350 9310 111
70+ 178 4579 96

totals 4063 92721 128

As this was the data of ten years ago, the peaks in the range 31-59 have moved on, so are now 41-69, corresponding to birth dates from the 1940s to the 1960s.

[John Foley]

Putting together the above information produces an interesting infographic comparing the present situation with a decade ago:

Findings (subject to interpretation) include:

1) if you haven't made it to where you want to be as a chess player by the age of 30, then you may face a downhill struggle;

2) grade inflation has assumed A-level proportions, or are players all getting stronger?

3) one can expect to play the same level of chess twice in one's life - once on the way up and once on the way down

4) chess powers decline very slowly: after a lifetime's experience on average you are level with yourself aged 16

5) the surge of interest from Fischer can still be seen in those players who were aged above 10 in 1972 i.e. born in or before 1962

6) lots of people come back to chess when they retire / change career

7) there has been a significant decline in rated juniors over the last decade

Conclusion: with fewer current juniors, and the Fischer surge attenuating, the long term prospects for the sport are not good unless chess picks up again in schools.

[Alex Holowczak]

2) grade inflation has assumed A-level proportions, or are players all getting stronger?

In 2009, the grades were recalibrated to counterbalance the problem of stretched grades. It was somewhat controversial at the time, but then any change in chess tends to be. This basically meant that everyone below 200 went up in such a way that everyone's grades were brought closer together. For example, my 2008 published grade was 90, but the associated new grade to go with it was 133.

[Roger de Coverly]

In 2009, the grades were recalibrated to counterbalance the problem of stretched grades. It was somewhat controversial at the time, but then any change in chess tends to be. This basically meant that everyone below 200 went up in such a way that everyone's grades were brought closer together. For example, my 2008 published grade was 90, but the associated new grade to go with it was 133.

Essentially everyone's grade was reduced to around 80% of its previous value, but then 40 points was added back. At the elite FM+ level, grades were much the same. At the "Open" level, around 175, the addition was around 6 to 10 points, which given the reliability of grades is only to the nearest 8 points, was within statistical fluctuations. It was lower down that the grades were designed to flatter, in that whereas the "average" player had been in the 110 to 120 range, they gained 20 points to put them in the 130 to 140 range.

There is of course the effect that players towards the top may be getting stronger, even those whose nominal grade range hadn't changed in thirty years. It's not just opening theory, in general you need to know more about the resulting early middle game positions than you did thirty years ago. In endings, if you aren't in adjudication and to a lesser extent adjournment territory, quick play finishes and rapidplays force your ending game knowledge that bit higher.

Caution should be expressed in drawing conclusions from the average grades seen for juniors. What's published isn't what's been used in calculations.

[E Michael White]

I think it’s true to say that a lower proportion of ages were previously known for older players. Of course you can’t test this until the age emerges.

On the right hand side of the chart comparing the orange blocks against the blue from 10 years earlier and 10 years younger, shows big increases. I suspect this is a combination of not just returning baby boomers but also ages becoming known over the last ten years. Older players have given their ages to become eligible for more common veteran events and veterans grading prizes and to obtain FIDE grades through play in the 4NCL or e2e4 events.

When a player enters a FIDE event and gives their date of birth to FIDE it might be a minor DPA offence that the ECF, who act as agents for FIDE, collect the data for FIDE and in addition, without the express permission of the player, use it in their own records !

[Roger de Coverly]

When a player enters a FIDE event and gives their date of birth to FIDE

I don't think any players are in direct communication with FIDE. You give your date of birth to the event organiser, who passes it on to the domestic grader and the international grader, both of whom act on behalf of the ECF. In turn the date of birth becomes known to the ECF and FIDE. FIDE no longer publish the date, only the year.

[E Michael White]

Thats right. When a player enters their first FIDE tournament the organisers ask for their date of birth in order to give it to FIDE so they and the ECF act as agents for that purpose. In many cases the player will have been a graded ECF player and the ECF will have managed without the age for years. The reason for collecting it would be for the player to obtain a FIDE rating. Once passed to FIDE the ECF could delete it for the stated purpose ie sending to FIDE has been completed.

[Roger de Coverly]

Thats right. When a player enters their first FIDE tournament the organisers ask for their date of birth in order to give it to FIDE so they and the ECF act as agents for that purpose. In many cases the player will have been a graded ECF player and the ECF will have managed without the age for years. The reason for collecting it would be for the player to obtain a FIDE rating. Once passed to FIDE the ECF could delete it for the stated purpose ie sending to FIDE has been completed.

The ECF have wanted and have being trying to collect dates of birth for all players for at least twenty years. At one stage they were intending to use date of birth as a means of merging the results from a number of different sources. They found that this was impractical not least because organisers couldn't be bothered and neither could players, to give dates of birth every time they entered an event. They rapidly found that using the grading code as the identifier was rather more practical both for players and organisers. In the past, you could get an International rating without giving a date of birth. I rather suspect you still can. One of my local opponents is a case in point
http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2011-11-01

If the grading team ever felt bored and at a loose end, they could give lists of active local players without dates of birth to local players and ask then to use their contacts to get some of the missing data filled in.

It has to be perfectly legitimate for the ECF to attempt to collect dates of birth as part of running English chess. It needs to establish eligibility for junior and veteran events. I know the ECF ran into a rather petty DPA related complaint about publication of a captioned photograph in the Yearbook, but I'm not aware of any complaints about its collection of birth dates.

[E Michael White]

I don’t believe it’s necessary for the ECF to hold complete dates of birth. the year would do. To avoid scams and security risks organisations shouldn't use personal data for day to day authentication or identification, they should develop their own code, as the ECF has done for grading. You're right the grading code should be used for identification. To obtain a code in the first place it’s ok to use personal data but then organisations should delete the personal data. Once membership comes in and the ECF has an online payments site no doubt at some point the system will be hacked and personal data taken, so we could reconvene this conversation then.

[Alex Holowczak]

I think there is one key point regarding the date of birth requirement. The player who has provided his date of birth is usually quite happy for the ECF and FIDE to have it. For example, I've asked the various Uni captains for dates of birth for their players, saying it was for the ECF grading database, and this information has been volunteered by everyone who has bothered to check their e-mails. Of course, most people our age volunteer this information to Facebook.

So while a lawyer may well get excited about the prospect of a DPA lawsuit, it's worth remembering that people couldn't actually give a fig.

[John McKenna]

Alex H - being a good representative of younger generations - may only seem to have missed the point.
Yet, the young suffer the consequences, too. They are charged higher motor insurance premiums because they take more risks.
Perhaps Alex and friends are not so worried about being scammed as they already have a small mountain of debt (courtesy of Tory/Libdem & Labour scams) and are used to living financially dangerously.
Speaking of 'figs' - read about the cost of fig trees in Portcullis Hse?

[Alex Holowczak]

Alex H - being a good representative of younger generations - may only seems to have missed the point.
Yet, the young suffer the consequences, too. They are charged higher motor insurance premiums because they take more risks.
Perhaps Alex and friends are not so worried about being scammed as they already have a small mountain of debt ( courtesy of Tory/Libdem & Labour scams) and are already used to living financially dangerously.
Speaking of 'figs' - read about the cost of fig trees in Portcullis Hse?

I think the point I was trying to make is that most people - particularly those my age - have far greater issues to deal with on a daily basis than whether event organisers are passing date of birth information on to ECF and/or FIDE.

Given an entrant to the tournament would have:
(a) volunteered this information to the organiser
(b) known whether it was a FIDE-rated event or an ECF-graded event

I don't see why any chessplayer entering an event would be majorly shocked to discover that either of those august bodies has the information they wilfully volunteered in the first place.

Suppose either ECF or FIDE are hacked so that this information can be acquired. For one thing, I don't think this is very likely, because the ECF in particular is such a small organisation that any would-be hackers would have better things to waste their time with. And if hackers do get my date of birth, then OK. This is information I volunteer elsewhere - even this Forum flags it! - so if a hacker was that interested in hacking my account, then he could do so already.

Some things are worth worrying about, and some things aren't.

[John McKenna]

Fair enough Alex.
(Hope you, me and the ECF haven't been hacked as a side-effect of this digression.)

[Ian Stephens]

I guess all adult members could enter their birth date as the 1st January and the year born, whilst Juniors could enter their term start date, and only an unlucky few would then have sleepless nights about being hacked!!
Sorry John.