March 2012 update now live

General discussions about ratings.
Michael Bennett
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March 2012 update now live

Post by Michael Bennett » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:24 am

The March update for the grading database went live this morning.

http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/
Michael Bennett
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Ian Stephens
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Ian Stephens » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:44 pm

Thanks Michael, if you could just give The "Grand Prix" crew a nudge for me please?
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.

Richard Haddrell

Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Richard Haddrell » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:28 pm

"Grand Prix" crew speaking. Why do you think I need a nudge?

Ian Stephens
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Ian Stephens » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:11 pm

Richard Haddrell wrote:"Grand Prix" crew speaking. Why do you think I need a nudge?
Hello Richard, I am eagerly awaiting the next GP update, If I am in the top 50 of my section which I believe I maybe for the first time in my life! I can then show my dearly beloved, that those weekends away I have been having were not spent on Wine, Women and song!
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.

Richard Haddrell

Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Richard Haddrell » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:05 am

Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Adam Raoof » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:07 am

Richard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2o9-jmtNoU
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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Ian Stephens
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Ian Stephens » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Richard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
Thanks Richard, No. 51 in the 140-159 section but how about if I am transfered to the 120-139 section as the rules allow, how "unlucky" then? :)
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.

Ian Stephens
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Ian Stephens » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:15 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Richard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2o9-jmtNoU
Then Adam, it will have to be this ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnxEcOoUsUs :)
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.

Alan Burke

Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:27 am

The March 2012 update actually includes several matches which were played in May 2011 (ie almost 12 months - as well as TWO grading periods - ago). Apparently it has only recently been realised that these results were not sent in on time by the league in which the matches were played.

The first problem with this is that the players' grades for these matches have now been calculated at their current grade rather than the grade they were when the matches actually took place. This means that some players are gaining more points than they would have done, whilst others are losing them. If this procedure is allowed to continue then please note that the largest standard play gain in the latest ECF grading list in 41 points - so would it be fair that an current opponent of theirs suddenly loses those 41 points for a match that was not sent in for grading at the correct time ? It can't be any more difficult to use the grade at the time of the match rather than the current grade.

The other point is that all the players affected did not of course have the match points gained from those fixtures calculated towards their grade in the period immediately after those matches. This, of course, could have affected their new grade, whilst some players who lost matches but did not have those results included, might have been given a lower grade if they had been submitted on time and which then allowed them to play in lower sections at congresses. (ie A player who didn't have one of their matches submitted and currently has a grade of 170, might have lost the game in question and thus his grade, had it been included, would have gone to 169 and then make him eligible for a lower section.)

As players pay a fee to have their games graded, shouldn't some form of punishment (ie a fine) be issued to any League / congress which fails to submit results on time; with that money then being refunded to the players affected ? Alternatively, ensure each player's grade is updated to what it should have been if the matches had been submitted on time and give the fine money to the members of the grading team for their time and effort in dealing with the task.

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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:09 am

Alan Burke wrote:As players pay a fee to have their games graded, shouldn't some form of punishment (ie a fine) be issued to any League / congress which fails to submit results on time; with that money then being refunded to the players affected ? Alternatively, ensure each player's grade is updated to what it should have been if the matches had been submitted on time and give the fine money to the members of the grading team for their time and effort in dealing with the task.
There is a punishment for not submitting congress results within one month of the congress. The games don't count towards the Grand Prix. If this is a suitable deterrent, I don't know.

A fine for late submissions is not a bad idea, assuming the appropriate administrative procedures can be put in place. At the moment, if you submit a grading file to the ECF, it'll be graded, and the Office will be left to chase the money up. If the money doesn't come in, then the money doesn't come in. But the games remain graded. Until this changes, there's not much point in imposing a fine.

Alan Burke

Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:40 am

I suppose some of the onus is therefore on players to ensure all their games have been included in the published grading list and, if not, to get in touch with the appropriate league/congress and ask why that is the case ?

As I said before, the players have paid for that service, so any failure to do have that done should result in some form of recompense, whether it be financial or to have their gradings properly updated.

Rather than a fine, let's call it a "late entry fee". just as any congress would charge a player for the extra work involved if they submit an entry after the stated date !

Mick Norris
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:28 am

Alan

Why don't you go the Bolton Easter Congress this weekend and ask the Manchester League grader why it happened rather than moaning about it on a public forum?

We can introduce the "fining" principle if you want - we can also enforce the rule that all results have to be submitted within 3 days and score all non-submissions as losses to all 14 (or ten) players and submit those for grading - indeed, we can also score all games as lost when the results are submitted with names spelt wrongly, perhaps fining teams when they spell their own players names wrongly :wink:

Based on the results files I have seen this season so far, I think the MCF would then have enough money to buy the President a new house :D

Alternatively, you could ask why there aren't enough volunteers to fill the posts vacant in the MCF, and why we keep losing good officers sick of being criticised for simply trying their best to clear up the mess left by players, captains and clubs :(

Recently, the grader in question spent a few hours setting the digital clocks for the Manchester Rapidplay, got up early (very early with the change to Summer Time) to control at the event, took the photos at the prize giving, graded the results the next day, submitted them to the ECF, prepared the results cross tables for the MCF website and MCCU U150 RGP, told the organisers exactly how much Game Fee they needed to pay the ECF, taking 2 days off work in total, and got paid £35 for his efforts :roll:
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Adam Raoof
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:37 am

Mick Norris wrote: ...and got paid £35 for his efforts :roll:
He got PAID?!
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:44 pm

Mick Norris wrote:Recently, the grader in question spent a few hours setting the digital clocks for the Manchester Rapidplay, got up early (very early with the change to Summer Time) to control at the event, took the photos at the prize giving, graded the results the next day, submitted them to the ECF, prepared the results cross tables for the MCF website and MCCU U150 RGP, told the organisers exactly how much Game Fee they needed to pay the ECF, taking 2 days off work in total, and got paid £35 for his efforts :roll:
I did all of the above, except grading, crosstables and GP reporting took place on the day the event was played, rather than the next day. For this, I got £0 for my efforts. Sounds like I need a better agent. :oops:

David Sedgwick
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Re: March 2012 update now live

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:29 pm

The following extract from the minutes of the 2011 AGM of the Chess Arbiters' Association is germane:
Alex McFarlane reported that he had attended the FIDE Grand Prix in Astrakhan. Russia, and one of the strongest things that had struck him was the very different respect shown to arbiters compared to this country. A discussion on the arbiters’ role in this country in this country then took place. The outcome was that arbiters could rarely charge an appropriate fee for the services they contributed towards the congress scene without damaging it, which was not the outcome anyone wanted. It was also a worry that this lack of recognition was manifesting in less younger arbiters coming forward.

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