March 2012 update now live
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March 2012 update now live
Michael Bennett
Hendon Chess Club: http://www.hendonchessclub.com
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Hendon Chess Club: http://www.hendonchessclub.com
Golders Green Rapidplays: http://www.goldersgreenchess.blogspot.com
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Re: March 2012 update now live
Thanks Michael, if you could just give The "Grand Prix" crew a nudge for me please?
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.
Re: March 2012 update now live
"Grand Prix" crew speaking. Why do you think I need a nudge?
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Re: March 2012 update now live
Hello Richard, I am eagerly awaiting the next GP update, If I am in the top 50 of my section which I believe I maybe for the first time in my life! I can then show my dearly beloved, that those weekends away I have been having were not spent on Wine, Women and song!Richard Haddrell wrote:"Grand Prix" crew speaking. Why do you think I need a nudge?
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.
Re: March 2012 update now live
Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
- Adam Raoof
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Re: March 2012 update now live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2o9-jmtNoURichard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
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Re: March 2012 update now live
Thanks Richard, No. 51 in the 140-159 section but how about if I am transfered to the 120-139 section as the rules allow, how "unlucky" then?Richard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.
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Re: March 2012 update now live
Then Adam, it will have to be this ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnxEcOoUsUsAdam Raoof wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2o9-jmtNoURichard Haddrell wrote:Unlucky. There's a new update out, and you don't appear. You're number 51.
Ex-President of Liverpool Chess Club, now mere Tournament Controller and Chief bottle washer.
Re: March 2012 update now live
The March 2012 update actually includes several matches which were played in May 2011 (ie almost 12 months - as well as TWO grading periods - ago). Apparently it has only recently been realised that these results were not sent in on time by the league in which the matches were played.
The first problem with this is that the players' grades for these matches have now been calculated at their current grade rather than the grade they were when the matches actually took place. This means that some players are gaining more points than they would have done, whilst others are losing them. If this procedure is allowed to continue then please note that the largest standard play gain in the latest ECF grading list in 41 points - so would it be fair that an current opponent of theirs suddenly loses those 41 points for a match that was not sent in for grading at the correct time ? It can't be any more difficult to use the grade at the time of the match rather than the current grade.
The other point is that all the players affected did not of course have the match points gained from those fixtures calculated towards their grade in the period immediately after those matches. This, of course, could have affected their new grade, whilst some players who lost matches but did not have those results included, might have been given a lower grade if they had been submitted on time and which then allowed them to play in lower sections at congresses. (ie A player who didn't have one of their matches submitted and currently has a grade of 170, might have lost the game in question and thus his grade, had it been included, would have gone to 169 and then make him eligible for a lower section.)
As players pay a fee to have their games graded, shouldn't some form of punishment (ie a fine) be issued to any League / congress which fails to submit results on time; with that money then being refunded to the players affected ? Alternatively, ensure each player's grade is updated to what it should have been if the matches had been submitted on time and give the fine money to the members of the grading team for their time and effort in dealing with the task.
The first problem with this is that the players' grades for these matches have now been calculated at their current grade rather than the grade they were when the matches actually took place. This means that some players are gaining more points than they would have done, whilst others are losing them. If this procedure is allowed to continue then please note that the largest standard play gain in the latest ECF grading list in 41 points - so would it be fair that an current opponent of theirs suddenly loses those 41 points for a match that was not sent in for grading at the correct time ? It can't be any more difficult to use the grade at the time of the match rather than the current grade.
The other point is that all the players affected did not of course have the match points gained from those fixtures calculated towards their grade in the period immediately after those matches. This, of course, could have affected their new grade, whilst some players who lost matches but did not have those results included, might have been given a lower grade if they had been submitted on time and which then allowed them to play in lower sections at congresses. (ie A player who didn't have one of their matches submitted and currently has a grade of 170, might have lost the game in question and thus his grade, had it been included, would have gone to 169 and then make him eligible for a lower section.)
As players pay a fee to have their games graded, shouldn't some form of punishment (ie a fine) be issued to any League / congress which fails to submit results on time; with that money then being refunded to the players affected ? Alternatively, ensure each player's grade is updated to what it should have been if the matches had been submitted on time and give the fine money to the members of the grading team for their time and effort in dealing with the task.
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Re: March 2012 update now live
There is a punishment for not submitting congress results within one month of the congress. The games don't count towards the Grand Prix. If this is a suitable deterrent, I don't know.Alan Burke wrote:As players pay a fee to have their games graded, shouldn't some form of punishment (ie a fine) be issued to any League / congress which fails to submit results on time; with that money then being refunded to the players affected ? Alternatively, ensure each player's grade is updated to what it should have been if the matches had been submitted on time and give the fine money to the members of the grading team for their time and effort in dealing with the task.
A fine for late submissions is not a bad idea, assuming the appropriate administrative procedures can be put in place. At the moment, if you submit a grading file to the ECF, it'll be graded, and the Office will be left to chase the money up. If the money doesn't come in, then the money doesn't come in. But the games remain graded. Until this changes, there's not much point in imposing a fine.
Re: March 2012 update now live
I suppose some of the onus is therefore on players to ensure all their games have been included in the published grading list and, if not, to get in touch with the appropriate league/congress and ask why that is the case ?
As I said before, the players have paid for that service, so any failure to do have that done should result in some form of recompense, whether it be financial or to have their gradings properly updated.
Rather than a fine, let's call it a "late entry fee". just as any congress would charge a player for the extra work involved if they submit an entry after the stated date !
As I said before, the players have paid for that service, so any failure to do have that done should result in some form of recompense, whether it be financial or to have their gradings properly updated.
Rather than a fine, let's call it a "late entry fee". just as any congress would charge a player for the extra work involved if they submit an entry after the stated date !
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Re: March 2012 update now live
Alan
Why don't you go the Bolton Easter Congress this weekend and ask the Manchester League grader why it happened rather than moaning about it on a public forum?
We can introduce the "fining" principle if you want - we can also enforce the rule that all results have to be submitted within 3 days and score all non-submissions as losses to all 14 (or ten) players and submit those for grading - indeed, we can also score all games as lost when the results are submitted with names spelt wrongly, perhaps fining teams when they spell their own players names wrongly
Based on the results files I have seen this season so far, I think the MCF would then have enough money to buy the President a new house
Alternatively, you could ask why there aren't enough volunteers to fill the posts vacant in the MCF, and why we keep losing good officers sick of being criticised for simply trying their best to clear up the mess left by players, captains and clubs
Recently, the grader in question spent a few hours setting the digital clocks for the Manchester Rapidplay, got up early (very early with the change to Summer Time) to control at the event, took the photos at the prize giving, graded the results the next day, submitted them to the ECF, prepared the results cross tables for the MCF website and MCCU U150 RGP, told the organisers exactly how much Game Fee they needed to pay the ECF, taking 2 days off work in total, and got paid £35 for his efforts
Why don't you go the Bolton Easter Congress this weekend and ask the Manchester League grader why it happened rather than moaning about it on a public forum?
We can introduce the "fining" principle if you want - we can also enforce the rule that all results have to be submitted within 3 days and score all non-submissions as losses to all 14 (or ten) players and submit those for grading - indeed, we can also score all games as lost when the results are submitted with names spelt wrongly, perhaps fining teams when they spell their own players names wrongly
Based on the results files I have seen this season so far, I think the MCF would then have enough money to buy the President a new house
Alternatively, you could ask why there aren't enough volunteers to fill the posts vacant in the MCF, and why we keep losing good officers sick of being criticised for simply trying their best to clear up the mess left by players, captains and clubs
Recently, the grader in question spent a few hours setting the digital clocks for the Manchester Rapidplay, got up early (very early with the change to Summer Time) to control at the event, took the photos at the prize giving, graded the results the next day, submitted them to the ECF, prepared the results cross tables for the MCF website and MCCU U150 RGP, told the organisers exactly how much Game Fee they needed to pay the ECF, taking 2 days off work in total, and got paid £35 for his efforts
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- Adam Raoof
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Re: March 2012 update now live
He got PAID?!Mick Norris wrote: ...and got paid £35 for his efforts
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
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Don’t stop playing chess!
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Don’t stop playing chess!
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Re: March 2012 update now live
I did all of the above, except grading, crosstables and GP reporting took place on the day the event was played, rather than the next day. For this, I got £0 for my efforts. Sounds like I need a better agent.Mick Norris wrote:Recently, the grader in question spent a few hours setting the digital clocks for the Manchester Rapidplay, got up early (very early with the change to Summer Time) to control at the event, took the photos at the prize giving, graded the results the next day, submitted them to the ECF, prepared the results cross tables for the MCF website and MCCU U150 RGP, told the organisers exactly how much Game Fee they needed to pay the ECF, taking 2 days off work in total, and got paid £35 for his efforts
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Re: March 2012 update now live
The following extract from the minutes of the 2011 AGM of the Chess Arbiters' Association is germane:
Alex McFarlane reported that he had attended the FIDE Grand Prix in Astrakhan. Russia, and one of the strongest things that had struck him was the very different respect shown to arbiters compared to this country. A discussion on the arbiters’ role in this country in this country then took place. The outcome was that arbiters could rarely charge an appropriate fee for the services they contributed towards the congress scene without damaging it, which was not the outcome anyone wanted. It was also a worry that this lack of recognition was manifesting in less younger arbiters coming forward.