Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

General discussions about ratings.
Alan Burke

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Alan Burke » Tue May 15, 2012 10:06 am

If every game played before November 31st is to be included on the grading list then you have no problem. You could wait as long as you wanted to submit the results - well, at least until the world decides that November has 31 days !

30 days has September,
April, June and November.
All the rest ..... etc, etc.

Paul Dargan
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Paul Dargan » Tue May 15, 2012 12:07 pm

I suspect we should probably consult with Theresa May for advice on the number od days in various months and when cut-off dates fall...


Paul

Mike Creaney
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Cleveland

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Mike Creaney » Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 am

Nov 31st was obviously a Typo by William,
Alan & Paul you didn't realise this ?
Your posts whilst very droll where not relevant,
i know ,I know a case of the Pot calling the Kettle...etc

Richard Haddrell

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Richard Haddrell » Wed May 16, 2012 11:27 am

Here’s some answers, and a few remarks at the end.

The playing deadline for the July list is 30th June, as everyone knows. How soon you have to report club internal results to the local grader will depend on his personal circumstances and I’m sure he will let you know, but I suppose most will say something like "first few days in July". Then the grader himself has a deadline by which he must report to the ECF. The graders know when it is and I’m not going to publish it here, but you will guess that it is geared to publication of the new grades in late July. This almost certainly means the last week of July. Don’t count on "the weekend that starts the British". They used to aim for that in the bad old days, because the British was their over-the-counter chance to sell paper grading lists.

The playing deadline for the January list was 31st December. If a grader told a club otherwise, he may have been thinking of last year’s Rapidplay deadline which really was 30th November.
Sean Hewitt wrote:
William Metcalfe wrote:I just checked on the database. League games played in Dec got graded but our club champ games are all dated before Nov 31st
Hmm. With the way that grades are now calculated, that will cause some players future grades to be wrong. I suggest going back to the grader and asking him to correct this.
He can’t. Games reported too late for the January list just don’t go into the January list. They go into the July list, with calculation done on January grades. Of course it’s inaccurate. January grades are corrected if mistakes in results come to light, but additions (as opposed to corrections) are not accepted. Grades would be too volatile. Imagine the effect on the January list if three months’ worth of the L*nd*n League suddenly got added to it in June.

The same rule applies to the August list. There is a degree of flexibility with the July list, because it is considered important to have the grading list as complete as it can be for the start of the league season; so late results are still accepted till the August revision appears. After that, no longer.

The real problem, as I’ve suggested, isn’t the odd month’s-worth of late reporting. It’s whole half-seasons from events that report once a year. I expect things will improve as the twice-yearly system beds down. Some leagues - including, to be fair, the one flimsily disguised a couple of paragraphs up - have already decided to mend their ways and send halfyear results in future.

The other thing that will improve is correction of errors. When we first had game results on the site, at the start of this year, people were able to see all the mistakes in the halfyear results and several hundred January grades got corrected a month later in consequence. The mistakes they’re finding now are in the second halfyear, and the July grades will benefit in accuracy before they're published instead of after.

Alan Burke

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Alan Burke » Thu May 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Mike Creaney, if you think William's post was just a typing error, how come you didn't correct it later when you typed ... "Sean,Why do you suppose the said games are all dated before Nov 31st ?" Was that just another typing error, this time on your part, or had you not even realised the faux pas until someone else pointed it out ?

Mike Creaney
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Cleveland

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Mike Creaney » Fri May 18, 2012 2:08 pm

Alan,Fair point
i have to admit i didn't realise until you pointed it out,
you noticed it and had a bit of fun with it
i shouldn't have reacted in that self important way even if i felt aggrieved ,sorry

Alan Burke

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Alan Burke » Fri May 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Mike, no problem mate. I know that the written word on here can sometimes not reflect the manner in which the comments are meant to be portrayed - a witticism by someone can easily be mistaken by another person who thinks that some offence was meant by the writer.

William Metcalfe
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:12 pm
Location: Darlington

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by William Metcalfe » Fri May 18, 2012 7:36 pm

Sorry i screwed up i need to appologise to Mike i had misunderstood something that was said to me sorry Mike you are right and i was wrong
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3732
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue May 22, 2012 9:39 am

People, I have scanned this thread, but, alas, am no wiser for it. What is the actual last date for submission for inclusion in the next grading list?

David Gilbert
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:03 am

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by David Gilbert » Tue May 22, 2012 9:56 am

Definitely by the 34th June, I reckon.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Mick Norris » Tue May 22, 2012 10:02 am

Paul McKeown wrote:People, I have scanned this thread, but, alas, am no wiser for it. What is the actual last date for submission for inclusion in the next grading list?
The graders know, so ask one of them :wink:
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3732
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue May 22, 2012 10:14 am

Mick,

From Richard Haddrell's posting, I assume that one can play until 30th of June or with local agreement a few days later than that, but one's games might not make their way into the July list, but, if so, ought then to make their way into the August revision. Just wish the ECF would provide a guaranteed last date, and allow local graders then to give the nod and the wink for later submissions. It would be clearer, it just seems all a bit airy-fairy at the moment.

E Michael White
Posts: 1420
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by E Michael White » Tue May 22, 2012 11:20 am

Paul McKeown wrote:Mick,

From Richard Haddrell's posting, I assume that one can play until 30th of June or with local agreement a few days later than that, but one's games might not make their way into the July list, but, if so, ought then to make their way into the August revision. Just wish the ECF would provide a guaranteed last date, and allow local graders then to give the nod and the wink for later submissions. It would be clearer, it just seems all a bit airy-fairy at the moment.
Paul the ECF avoid black and white and go for grey whenever possible. It's to appear knowledgeable and in control but without having to admit to errors later.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10310
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Mick Norris » Tue May 22, 2012 11:49 am

I think the games have to be dated no later than 30 June (apart from the ECF County Championship Finals) to be included

I can't see how anyone would find out if a game played, say, 3 July was submitted as having been played, say, 26 June, although beware of online result submissions
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Alan Burke

Re: Deadline for submission for July 2012 list

Post by Alan Burke » Tue May 22, 2012 12:07 pm

OK, there are good reasons why certain results might not be included in the grading list which they should have been and are therefore put into the next list.

However, if so, surely the players' grades for those results should be calculated as they were at the time of the match and not what their new grades now are.

For example, in the list to be calculated for the July 2012 list, a match is to be included which actually took place in May 2011 but was not included in the previous grading lists. The two players at the time of the match had grades of 171 (Won) and 143 (Lost). However, in the provisional results for the forthcoming July 2012 list, the two players are being calculated at their current grades of 172 (Won) and 130 (Lost). This means that the player who won the game will be losing out by 13 points whilst the player who lost the match will be gaining 1 point.

OK, that might only be a slight difference but on other occasions it could be far greater. Surely the grades at the time of the match should be used.

Post Reply