Rapidplay Grade
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Rapidplay Grade
This was sent to everyone in Norfolk, does this mean that players who joined the ECF via phone or online do not get their games graded?
"If any of Norfolk's ECF Direct Members would like their games graded
they may submit them to me for grading provided two provisions can be
met as follows:
1. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
2. Your opponent is also a Direct Member of the ECF, not necessarily
through the Norfolk MO.
3. You provide me with proof of your opponents agreement to having the
game graded and his/her ECF Direct Membership number. This could best
take the form of a scoresheet signed by your opponent."
Or is there another way of getting your game graded?
"If any of Norfolk's ECF Direct Members would like their games graded
they may submit them to me for grading provided two provisions can be
met as follows:
1. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
2. Your opponent is also a Direct Member of the ECF, not necessarily
through the Norfolk MO.
3. You provide me with proof of your opponents agreement to having the
game graded and his/her ECF Direct Membership number. This could best
take the form of a scoresheet signed by your opponent."
Or is there another way of getting your game graded?
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Events are normally graded via the organisers.
Is this the whole of the email? I wonder if this relates solely to friendly games for example?
Is this the whole of the email? I wonder if this relates solely to friendly games for example?
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
As Sean suggests, it could only apply to "casual" games as the general principle would be to grade all of an event or none of it. Selective grading has been disallowed for some years because of the risk of grading manipulation.Warren Kingston wrote:This was sent to everyone in Norfolk, does this mean that players who joined the ECF via phone or online do not get their games graded?
Is this some sort of attempt to maintain the numbers renewing through the Norfolk MO? I really don't see why they bother. If the County Association wants £ 1 per head per player in Norfolk why not just levy it directly?Warren Kingston wrote:. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
The whole of the email.
Hi All,
Please find attached a revised entry form for the Thetford Rapidplay in
September.
Any queries about the event should be addressed to Kevin Moore at the
address on the form.
If any of Norfolk's ECF Direct Members would like their games graded
they may submit them to me for grading provided two provisions can be
met as follows:
1. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
2. Your opponent is also a Direct Member of the ECF, not necessarily
through the Norfolk MO.
3. You provide me with proof of your opponents agreement to having the
game graded and his/her ECF Direct Membership number. This could best
take the form of a scoresheet signed by your opponent.
For any queries regarding grading please contact me.
Jaycee
Hi All,
Please find attached a revised entry form for the Thetford Rapidplay in
September.
Any queries about the event should be addressed to Kevin Moore at the
address on the form.
If any of Norfolk's ECF Direct Members would like their games graded
they may submit them to me for grading provided two provisions can be
met as follows:
1. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
2. Your opponent is also a Direct Member of the ECF, not necessarily
through the Norfolk MO.
3. You provide me with proof of your opponents agreement to having the
game graded and his/her ECF Direct Membership number. This could best
take the form of a scoresheet signed by your opponent.
For any queries regarding grading please contact me.
Jaycee
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- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Rapidplay Grade
Thanks Warren. The event entry form makes no mention of grading or ECF membership requirements. It does look like Norfolk are offering to do selective grading. As Roger says, that's not allowed and none of the games would be graded even if submitted. You might want to tell them thatWarren Kingston wrote:The whole of the email.
Hi All,
Please find attached a revised entry form for the Thetford Rapidplay in
September.
Any queries about the event should be addressed to Kevin Moore at the
address on the form.
If any of Norfolk's ECF Direct Members would like their games graded
they may submit them to me for grading provided two provisions can be
met as follows:
1. You have renewed your direct membership through the Norfolk MO.
2. Your opponent is also a Direct Member of the ECF, not necessarily
through the Norfolk MO.
3. You provide me with proof of your opponents agreement to having the
game graded and his/her ECF Direct Membership number. This could best
take the form of a scoresheet signed by your opponent.
For any queries regarding grading please contact me.
Jaycee
Last edited by Sean Hewitt on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
I would have though that was out of order. You could split the tournament into graded and non graded, but surely a section should be graded in its entirety or not at all.Warren Kingston wrote: Please find attached a revised entry form for the Thetford Rapidplay in
September.
Actually it's cheating. Bronze members should be charged an extra £ 6 to upgrade to Silver, or the tournament should be ungraded.
Also there shouldn't be discrimination between one type of ECF member against another.
Write to Andrew Farthing to complain.
The entry form can be viewed here
http://lowestoftchessclub.org/PDF/Thetf ... 202012.pdf
It is completely silent on the issues of membership and grading. One might then assume that it was an ungraded Congress. In previous years, the Congress might have been able to be graded on the basis of free to MO people and 29p per game for the rest, less for the Junior events. The changes, which I assume Norfolk supported, were to remove the "MO right" and to put the grading cost up for non-members to £ 6 per head.
The split between Gold and Silver was introduced so that there could be a lower rate for club only players.
(edit) The 2011 entry form notes that ECF grading is included in the cost of entry and that members of the ECF can subtract £ 2 from the entry fee. They could have said the same this year by adding £ 6 (£4 probably in practice) to the entry fee and allowing Silver members to subtract £ 6 from the entry fee.
If the ECF has got its act together, even if it allows selective result submission, the organisers of the Congress should expect to receive a bill for £ 6 per head for every person not a Silver member. This would be regardless of which, or any, MO they had joined through. (/edit)
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Thank you both for all that information. I do not want to upset the applecart here in Norfolk, just wondering if there was some other way of getting the games graded if non-MO/FO members were not going to get their games graded by the organisers.
I would assume you are both right but then someone is wrong?
The NCCA seem to be being picky about non MO/FO members, just another example I suppose. It is being proposed that clubs entry fees will reflect the percentage of non members at a club, so our club could see us pay more than other clubs next season. Then I do understand the dilemna that they are in, as they get the pound which reduces the entry fee costs. Our club will just have to vote on it again at our AGM next season. We were told at first to join online then it all changed from a MO to a FO and told to join like that.
I would assume you are both right but then someone is wrong?
The NCCA seem to be being picky about non MO/FO members, just another example I suppose. It is being proposed that clubs entry fees will reflect the percentage of non members at a club, so our club could see us pay more than other clubs next season. Then I do understand the dilemna that they are in, as they get the pound which reduces the entry fee costs. Our club will just have to vote on it again at our AGM next season. We were told at first to join online then it all changed from a MO to a FO and told to join like that.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
The very latest entry form.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
There is no legitimate way of doing so that I am aware of.Warren Kingston wrote:Thank you both for all that information. I do not want to upset the applecart here in Norfolk, just wondering if there was some other way of getting the games graded if non-MO/FO members were not going to get their games graded by the organisers
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
John Charman has e-mailed Richard Haddrell to ask whether this could be done, and the answer he was given was "No".Sean Hewitt wrote:There is no legitimate way of doing so that I am aware of.Warren Kingston wrote:Thank you both for all that information. I do not want to upset the applecart here in Norfolk, just wondering if there was some other way of getting the games graded if non-MO/FO members were not going to get their games graded by the organisers
So games played between silver members at the Thetford Rapidplay will not be graded.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Just in case they tell you different, the amounts the county association will be paying the ECF will beWarren Kingston wrote: The NCCA seem to be being picky about non MO/FO members, just another example I suppose. It is being proposed that clubs entry fees will reflect the percentage of non members at a club, so our club could see us pay more than other clubs next season.
£12 for everyone signed via the FO
£ 2 per game for anyone, not signed up
This contrasts with the 2011-12 position
£12 for everyone signed up to the MO
58p per game for anyone, not signed up
What you get for the £ 12 is less than you used to. You no longer have access to Congresses or FIDE rated events without paying extra.
It seems to me that if your delegate votes in favour of an ECF scheme which has the effect of making a local rapid-play more expensive to enter, then you should hold him to account.Warren Kingston wrote: I do not want to upset the applecart here in Norfolk,
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Can someone please tell me what an FO, in the context used frequently above, is?
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Probably should be FA in the sense of Framework Agreement, but you could coin a new phrase "Framework Organisation" to mean a body that had signed a Framework Agreement.Alex Holowczak wrote:Can someone please tell me what an FO, in the context used frequently above, is?
MO seems to mean all of "members only", "membership organisation" and "membership only" depending on the context.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
That's unfair and wrong. I know you like to ignore the facts but the alternative under consideration was increasing game fee which would also have had the effect of making a local rapid-play more expensive to enter.Roger de Coverly wrote:It seems to me that if your delegate votes in favour of an ECF scheme which has the effect of making a local rapid-play more expensive to enter, then you should hold him to account.
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Re: Rapidplay Grade
Game Fee for a rapid-play Congress was 29p per game. For a six round event that's an expense of £ 1.74 per player. You would have to increase it all the way up to £ 1 per game to make it equal the £ 6 charge now being demanded.Sean Hewitt wrote: That's unfair and wrong. I know you like to ignore the facts but the alternative under consideration was increasing game fee which would also have had the effect of making a local rapid-play more expensive to enter.
One of the consequence suggested by opponents of the scheme was that it would encourage Congresses, rapid-play Congresses in particular to withdraw from grading. These seems to have happened in the case of the Thetford Congress.
We have a local Congress that's very similar to the Thetford one. It's not until next year, but we will have the issue of whether to increase the entry fee by around £ 4 (with a £ 6 rebate for Silver/Gold members), offer players the choice of graded or ungraded sections, or withdraw the whole event from grading. The fourth viable option, now we don't have to insist on Gold membership, is to go FIDE rated in whole or part. It would still be a worry that a player with an active rapid-play rating, but an inactive standard play rating might have their rating suspended, as no clarification on this has been made by the ECF.