Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

General discussions about ratings.
Gary Cook
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Gary Cook » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:43 am

Arguably the grading and publishing of grades is the most important thing the ECF do for 99% of players in England and Wales, but before we start that discussion, as of this morning I still can't access the grading database from my iPad - so it really doesn't matter whether the grades are published or not if some players can't even see the webpage.

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Barry Sandercock
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:15 am

I'm also unable to get the grading database on my iPad. There must be some fault in the system.

Steve Rooney
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Steve Rooney » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:24 am

Just tried it on an iPhone and the page appears blank, apart from text line 'Events Received'. When I clicked that, it then showed the full page content!

The search function worked, although the same thing happens at first - blank page then click 'Events Received' to show results. There are clearly some issues for using the grading site with iOS.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:24 am

Gary Cook wrote:Arguably the grading and publishing of grades is the most important thing the ECF do for 99% of players in England and Wales, but before we start that discussion, as of this morning I still can't access the grading database from my iPad - so it really doesn't matter whether the grades are published or not if some players can't even see the webpage.
The trick of clicking the "events" link seems to work, if you are a bit patient. If you are even a bit more patient the bug might be fixed, especially if you report the issue to one of the email addresses at the ECF website (complaining here does not necessarily get you the attention of the site's developers).

As far as support for phone and tablets goes, while it could have been addressed in advance with some simple testing, you might wonder how often do people need to access the grading site while away from a real computer. I thought most people would check it only once every six months. Support for a large variety of devices is welcome, but it comes at a cost: as an ECF member, should I complain I can't access the grading site with my Sinclair Spectrum?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:36 am

Paolo Casaschi wrote: you might wonder how often do people need to access the grading site while away from a real computer. I thought most people would check it only once every six months.
You don't go to the website to check your own grade, other than every six months. You do however visit it more frequently to look up your opponent and to check your personal statistics. The former is as likely to be on a smartphone or tablet as using a laptop or desktop computer.

Looking up your opponent's playing record gives some limited information to help you prepare. If for example, he has a grade of 150, but draws almost every game whether against 125 or 175, you can make a style inference, as you can if they sometimes beat 175s and lose to 125s.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:39 am

It isn't simple testing :( There's multiple versions of the web browsers out there, multiple operating systems (and multiple versions of those!) etc etc. All have the potential to produce strange incompatabilities like this. More of a nightmare really.

If nothing else ipads are used as the main computer for a reasonable number of people so it'd be useful to fix. Might be quite hard though. It sounds like it could be exceedingly annoying to track down.

Conceviable uses if there were every any disputes at a match, but those are happily rather rare.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:49 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:It isn't simple testing :( There's multiple versions of the web browsers out there, multiple operating systems (and multiple versions of those!) etc etc. All have the potential to produce strange incompatabilities like this. More of a nightmare really.
For an application like the ECF grading database, it is a rather simple testing. You can use testing tools that allow you to test quickly against a variety of platforms: this one is even free https://saucelabs.com/ but there are more powerful alternatives. It can get very complex for sites that use heavily the latest bells and whistles; it's not that case we are discussing though, retrieving data from a database and presenting tables with results is rather trivial. Fixing the issues is probably not difficult either, the main issue is to be aware that a given platform has a problem. Those (semi)automated testing sites should help with that.

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John Upham
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Dealing with these issues is not terribly difficult.

I determine the HTTP_USER_AGENT on the fly and then select appropriate CSS directives and others items accordingly.

What could be easier?
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:05 pm

"I determine the HTTP_USER_AGENT on the fly and then select appropriate CSS directives and others items accordingly.

What could be easier?"

Simplicity itself. I wonder what it means.

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John Upham
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by John Upham » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:13 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"I determine the HTTP_USER_AGENT on the fly and then select appropriate CSS directives and others items accordingly.

What could be easier?"

Simplicity itself. I wonder what it means.
Indeed but the point I am making is that a software developer coding a web application of note will or should know what it means!
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:16 pm

Easy to translate: find out quite what is asking for page and modify to fit 'quirks' :)
(Although people did use to fake it on quite a regular basis at one point, maybe less common/needed now.).

It depends how quirky/documented the quirks are really.....

Bill Porter
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Bill Porter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:30 pm

There are quite a few coding errors according to the w3 validator; it might be easier to fix these rather than have special coding to suit different browsers' guesses at the coder's intentions.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:42 pm

John Upham wrote:Dealing with these issues is not terribly difficult.

I determine the HTTP_USER_AGENT on the fly and then select appropriate CSS directives and others items accordingly.

What could be easier?
I agree, but why would a database lookup application require different quirks for different devices? You only need to display a small amount of data in a table, no quirks of any sort required!

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:47 pm

Don't all the different browsers etc make consistently displaying anything at all in HTML quite hard at times?

Sticking to standards is great in principle but probably not ideal when you're delivering a service like this, when you've just got to try and make it work as widely as possible. Tends to mean some work rounds.

The ECF grading website does also do some moderately fancy layout in places.

Bill Porter
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Re: Problems Accessing the ECF Grading Database?

Post by Bill Porter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:52 pm

Nearly all browsers except Internet Explorer stick closely to the w3 standard.
Having code for every every error handling variation for every browser is certainly a good alternative if you're paid for every line of code..... :lol:

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