FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

General discussions about ratings.
Michael Flatt
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FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:25 am

I have discovered that it is possible to access FIDE Historic Rating data simply by registering with FIDE Online Arena at NO COST.

Registration only requires Name, Date of Birth and existing FIDE ID number.

Levels of membership and annual subscription are:
Guest - FREE
FIDE Member - €25
Platinum Service - €50

GM/WGM - lifetime free full membership
IM/WIM - lifetime free full membership

Reference: http://arena.myfide.net/registration-an ... emberships

David Sedgwick
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:36 am

Michael Flatt wrote:I have discovered that it is possible to access FIDE Historic Rating data simply by registering with FIDE Online Arena at NO COST.
A concern, in my view a valid one, is that although it is currently free, that may not continue to be the case.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:57 am

What if you don't have a FIDE ID number? Can you still register with FIDE Online Arena? Also, if you know someone's date of birth and get their name and FIN from the public FIDE rating card, it looks like it is possible to register in someone else's name. Could lead to all sorts of problems. I'm tempted to register simply to stop such attempts at identity theft. It is also possible that FIDE may be tempted to add DOB to the existing rating database using data acquired from FIDE Online Arena registrations (unless they are asking for DOB in order to verify identity?), but that would be bad for a number of reasons.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:05 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:I have discovered that it is possible to access FIDE Historic Rating data simply by registering with FIDE Online Arena at NO COST.
But why should you need to artificially inflate the headcount at what's probably a failing commercial venture to access historic rating data? Perhaps the ECF should partner with an on-line service desirous of additional numbers and demand that you register with said on-line service to see the history of your and everyone else's grading data?

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:34 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:What if you don't have a FIDE ID number? Can you still register with FIDE Online Arena?
Yes, of course. Just try it.
Also, if you know someone's date of birth and get their name and FIN from the public FIDE rating card, it looks like it is possible to register in someone else's name.
You most certainly can. Some bright spark may already have commandeered, for instance, Kasparov's account, using an anonymous IP address.
Could lead to all sorts of problems. I'm tempted to register simply to stop such attempts at identity theft. It is also possible that FIDE may be tempted to add DOB to the existing rating database using data acquired from FIDE Online Arena registrations (unless they are asking for DOB in order to verify identity?), but that would be bad for a number of reasons.
Questions must be asked in Abu Dhabi. They are clearly desparate to sign up as many members as possible, and to get hold of their email addresses. The obvious points include

What do they intend to do with this data? ( aren't they supposed to tell you, and to allow you to opt out? ).

Crucially, who are "they"? I'm not convinced that we're talking about FIDE, but if the data is passed on to other organisations we need to know who they are.
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Michael Flatt
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:41 pm

Those without a FIDE ID have the option of applying for one through their National Federation or apply for one online, which may involve paying a fee. I didn't have to do that so I don't know the details.

Registering for a FIDE ID requires a date of birth. The year of birth is visible to anyone looking at your profile. Whether that is strictly necessary is open to debate.

Any database containing for personal details (name and date of birth) falls within the area of Data Protection legislation and needs to be controlled and protected. I would have expected that access to year of birth data would not be displayed publicly to non registered users, but it is.

Those registering with Arena Online need to supply a valid email address. I would expect that provides some proof of identity and evidence as to whether a user has registered falsely.

My motivation for registering was to gain access to the historic data and was pleased not to have paid a fee to do so. Whether additional fees will be introduced in futures is unknown. Nevertheless, these services need to be funded by some means.

The interesting thing is to option of playing online (premium service) and for your games to be counted towards your FIDE Rapid or Blitz over the board rating. That seems quite controversial.

Oh, of course, you have the option of receiving a Newsletter by email.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:44 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: It is also possible that FIDE may be tempted to add DOB to the existing rating database
I think you will find that the ratings database already has Date of Birth and always has done. How else do you think it can have variable K factors and list by juniors, year of birth etc? Data protection or other concerns stopped them publishing dates of birth in full some years ago.

I think disclosure of date of birth is a pre-requisite to getting a FIN which is in turn a requirement for playing in a FIDE rated event. It doesn't mean each and every date of birth is reliable though!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:46 pm

Michael Flatt wrote: The interesting thing is to option of playing online (premium service) and for your games to be counted towards your FIDE Rapid or Blitz over the board rating. That seems quite controversial.
It's extremely controversial and not I think happening. The only merger that was agreed was that the change in your over the board rating would be added to the Arena rating.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:07 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: It is also possible that FIDE may be tempted to add DOB to the existing rating database
I think you will find that the ratings database already has Date of Birth and always has done. How else do you think it can have variable K factors and list by juniors, year of birth etc? Data protection or other concerns stopped them publishing dates of birth in full some years ago.

I think disclosure of date of birth is a pre-requisite to getting a FIN which is in turn a requirement for playing in a FIDE rated event. It doesn't mean each and every date of birth is reliable though!
I assume that where a birth year is showing, the FIDE ratings database has the DOB. But there are plenty of records where no year of birth shows. I've assumed that these are records for which FIDE have no DOB, presumably from before this was made a requirement.

To pick a semi-random example, Murray Smith of Australia is rated 2320 and no birth year anywhere on his rating card:

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3201767

Less random examples (from the ENG titled list) of people with rating cards and no birth years:

https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=400998
https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=402656
https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=400556

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:32 pm

I'm sorry, Michael, but I have rarely seen a post which has managed to pack in so many inaccuracies.
Michael Flatt wrote:Those without a FIDE ID have the option of applying for one through their National Federation or apply for one online, which may involve paying a fee. I didn't have to do that so I don't know the details.
It is completely clear that there is no fee unless you opt for extra services.

Registering for a FIDE ID requires a date of birth. The year of birth is visible to anyone looking at your profile. Whether that is strictly necessary is open to debate.

Any database containing for personal details (name and date of birth) falls within the area of Data Protection legislation and needs to be controlled and protected. I would have expected that access to year of birth data would not be displayed publicly to non registered users, but it is.
You are correct about data protection. Online Commission not so far addressed this point, but I hope they will have to do so in Abu Dhabi.
Those registering with Arena Online need to supply a valid email address. I would expect that provides some proof of identity and evidence as to whether a user has registered falsely.
Why do you believe that?
My motivation for registering was to gain access to the historic data and was pleased not to have paid a fee to do so. Whether additional fees will be introduced in futures is unknown. Nevertheless, these services need to be funded by some means.
The Elista office runs remarkably cheaply and efficiently. They do not need money from this source to carry out their work on the FRS, and I do not believe they will get it.

The interesting thing is to option of playing online (premium service) and for your games to be counted towards your FIDE Rapid or Blitz over the board rating. That seems quite controversial.
and, as Roger has said, completely incorrect, although Online Commission has put out some strange announcments before withdrawing them. For my information, where did you get this from?
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Michael Flatt
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:40 pm

The registration process includes validation of your email address by responding to the email confirming your sign up details. There is a grace period of 30 days to confirm your email before the service is withdrawn.

No pressure to upgrade from Guest to FIDE Member or Platinium although, of course, the option remains should you feel the need.

Arena Online is provided by a commercial organisation, premiumchess.net: http://www.premiumchess.net/int/en/home
Last edited by Michael Flatt on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Flatt
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:45 pm

NickFaulks wrote:I'm sorry, Michael, but I have rarely seen a post which has managed to pack in so many inaccuracies.
Please, feel free to correct any inaccurate information. This is a discussion forum.

With regard FIDE ratings, I must have misunderstood the distinction between FIDE over the board Ratings and Arena Online ratings. Looking more closely I see that a separate entry is visible on a players profile.
http://arena.myfide.net/ wrote:Rating alignment with over the board games.

From January 2015, Arena ratings are calculated to include players' online activity as well as over the board game results. The first day of each month, as soon the traditional FIDE rating lists for rapid and blitz are published, the total over the board rating change is added to (subtracted from) the player's Arena rating. In this way, Arena ratings are upgraded to an official status because they reflect a player's overall activity, online and over the board. Arena ratings shall be used exclusively for online rankings and pairings of official FIDE online tournaments. Calculations of Arena ratings are powered by the advanced PremiumChess technology.

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:21 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:The registration process includes validation of your email address by responding to the email confirming your sign up details. There is a grace period of 30 days to confirm your email before the service is withdrawn.

No pressure to upgrade from Guest to FIDE Member or Platinium although, of course, the option remains should you feel the need.

Arena Online is provided by a commercial organisation, premiumchess.net: http://www.premiumchess.net/int/en/home
I have gone back to the Premiumchess site and have found quite a lot of new stuff, to me at least. For instance,

"Following the exclusive launch of FIDE Online Arena, the chess revolution has begun. Thanks to Premium Chess’ technology and revolutionary anti-cheating protection, chess lovers can participate with full confidence in Official National Federation events with Official National Federation ratings for the very first time".

Perhaps I'm on the wrong forum, but has the ECF been told how it can take advantage of this new opportunity? Do they intend to do so?

As to your point about the 30 day grace period, it took me a while to find this but it is indeed in one of the FAQs. I have made a note to check whether it happens. It is of course a simple matter to set up a new account every month, just to be able to see the history that has previously been freely available.
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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:51 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote:I have discovered that it is possible to access FIDE Historic Rating data simply by registering with FIDE Online Arena at NO COST.
A concern, in my view a valid one, is that although it is currently free, that may not continue to be the case.
Well, they could still make it a paid for service in the future even if they remove the registration requirement now.
It looks to me an attempt to quantify their audience, for example approaching potential sponsors with statistical data such has: chess has xxx many FIDE registered players, as much as yyy have an online account with FIDE and visit the FIDE website zzz times per month. That would probably help FIDE at a negligible cost for collecting the data.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: FIDE Rating - Access to Historic Data

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:54 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Perhaps the ECF should partner with an on-line service desirous of additional numbers and demand that you register with said on-line service to see the history of your and everyone else's grading data?
If this means the on-line membership is free and the ECF partner would cover the grading cost (hence removing the need of compulsory membership)... why not?

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