amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

General discussions about ratings.
Matt Harrison
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:51 pm

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matt Harrison » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:14 pm

Howard,

Thanks for the information - I shall leave it is his capable hands!

RayRyan
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:12 am

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by RayRyan » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:36 pm

I really do detest forums, so this will be my only reply.

I am aware of the 4NCL issue and have been up for a few nights trying to work out where the problem lies.
I assure you that I am giving it due attention and hopefully will be OK for the July rating list.

Please contact me directly at iro at rayryan dot com rather than shouting off in forums.

Ray Ryan Foster
International Ratings Officer

Ben Purton : Many thanks for your support - it is nice to have someone being positive.

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Carl Hibbard
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Location: Evesham

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:39 pm

RayRyan wrote:I really do detest forums, so this will be my only reply.

I am aware of the 4NCL issue and have been up for a few nights trying to work out where the problem lies.
I assure you that I am giving it due attention and hopefully will be OK for the July rating list.

Please contact me directly at iro at rayryan dot com rather than shouting off in forums.

Ray Ryan Foster
International Ratings Officer

Ben Purton : Many thanks for your support - it is nice to have someone being positive.
Hmm, not sure what forums and 'shouting off' has to do with the problem but at least it came to people's attention
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Roger de Coverly
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:26 am

Hmm, not sure what forums and 'shouting off' has to do with the problem but at least it came to people's attention
If incorrect results are published worldwide at www.fide.com then a public comment via the forum would seem to be in order. At the amateur level there's no money involved in having a correct international rating. There are however prestige and bragging rights so it's important to get it right. Why else do "rated" events attract players?

Matthew Turner
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:47 am

The rating problems at the 4NCL, follow similar problems at Hastings. It seems like quite a high proportion of English events are rating incorrectly. I've noticed that quite a few officials dislike fora, I wonder if this is because public debate exposes their incompetence?

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Carl Hibbard
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Location: Evesham

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:05 am

Matthew Turner wrote:The rating problems at the 4NCL, follow similar problems at Hastings. It seems like quite a high proportion of English events are rating incorrectly. I've noticed that quite a few officials dislike fora, I wonder if this is because public debate exposes their incompetence?
It does tend to be true that forums are mostly negative and are sometimes slow in coming forth with congratulations when they are due

However it does seem that the ECF in particular prefer to shy away from any sort of debate
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Matthew Turner
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:15 am

Carl,
The problem is that some 4NCL games have been rated twice. I suggest this is because Ray Ryan Foster has sent the games in twice (as he did with Hastings). There is really no point Ray staying up for a couple of nights to 'sort it out' he simply needs to ring FIDE to say he has messed up, move on and try not to make the same mistake for a third time.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:50 am

The problem is that some 4NCL games have been rated twice
I think the problem has now moved on in that there are no longer any duplicates but there are some missing games.

The unrated players with games for part rating are the experts on what's missing but I think the position is this.

What needs to be processed is

(a) The complete set of eligible results
MINUS
(b) the set of results already processed for weekends 1,2 and 3

What's actually been processed is
(c) The set of results for weekends 4 and 5.

What's missing are games from weekends 1, 2 and 3 between rated and unrated players which qualify retrospectively for inclusion because of games played in weekends 4 and 5. The rule is supposed to be that if, say, you (as an unrated player) play one rated player in weekends 1, 2 and 3 then this game on its own does not qualify. If you play at least 2 more in the weekends 4 and 5, then your season total of at least 3 does. If it's your first ever FIDE results and you get 1 point or less, then it doesn't count towards your first rating but it's suspected the FIDE computer knows this and will ignore these results.

Brian Valentine
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Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Brian Valentine » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:24 pm

I have just looked up my FIDE July 2009 calculations and there are games missing against players with long established ratings. Frustratingly only my defeats are recognised.

I don't know if this is related to the issues above (I don't think so). Usually 4NCL publish a spreadsheet to show what has been rated during the season, but I can't find one on their site. Does anyone have a link to it?

Sean Hewitt

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Brian Valentine wrote:I have just looked up my FIDE July 2009 calculations and there are games missing against players with long established ratings. Frustratingly only my defeats are recognised.

I don't know if this is related to the issues above (I don't think so). Usually 4NCL publish a spreadsheet to show what has been rated during the season, but I can't find one on their site. Does anyone have a link to it?
Hi Brian,

Rounds 1-8 can be found here.

Your games against Gibson, Sugden and Twitchell in Rounds 1-3 were rated in the January rating list so obviously won't be rated again. The Desai game in Round 4 is discounted as he was unrated, as were Meade and Kitchen in Rounds 5-6 so these games were not rated either.

Your games against Humphreys and Jones in Rounds 7-11 will be rated in July. The game against Andrew Walker is not rated because although he was rated at the time of the game, he was not rated in October when the 4NCL season started. And the game against Peter Lalic is not rated because he is unrated.

Therefore, it looks like all of your games have been rated correctly.

Brian Valentine
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Brian Valentine » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:02 pm

Sean,
Thanks for providing the link and spending time auditing the entries. One up to the administators. Just don't use my grades to fit an ECF to elo conversion table - they continue to diverge!

Sean Hewitt

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:38 am

A cursory glance at the FIDE website suggests that whatever the problem was, it has now been fixed - so well done to all those involved for sorting it out.

Even though it means I now lose rating points!

Matt Harrison
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:51 pm

Re: amateur hour in the 4NCL FIDE grading.

Post by Matt Harrison » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:34 pm

They have indeed - many thanks to Ray Ryan for sorting this out!

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