UTU/Tournament Director problem

General discussions about grading.
Richard James
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UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:23 pm

I wonder if anyone can help me.

I'm trying to install the current ECF grading list into UTU Swiss/Tournament Director in order to submit some results for grading.

First of all, I'm aware that there are two records in the grading list with non-standard characters in the name field, which I have to edit manually before installation (I was responsible for one of these myself!).

But, installing it as a dbf file I'm getting an error message:
DOB is in the future: '07-Jan-20 12:00:00 AM'

(I note that there's a Walter Adams in the list who was born on 07-Jan-1920.)

I tried converting it to a csv file to see if that made any difference and got a different error message:
ECFRapidGradeSuffix to (sic) large. Max Length 1 actual length is 2 Value: '18'

Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions as to how I can get round it?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:39 pm

Richard James wrote:But, installing it as a dbf file I'm getting an error message:
DOB is in the future: '07-Jan-20 12:00:00 AM'

(I note that there's a Walter Adams in the list who was born on 07-Jan-1920.)


It's a dormant millennium bug with their error processing interpreting that date of birth as being 2020 rather than 1920. Alternatively the data conversion process may have done it. You might be able to edit the data, either to make sure it has been download as 1920, or to correct it to a date that can be accepted. If you don't have any games by Mr Adams, you could alternatively just delete his record.

Richard James
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:46 pm

I deleted the DOB for Mr Adams, who, I guess, is unlikely to play in future Richmond Rapidplays, and still less likely to play in Richmond Junior events, and got another error from someone born in 1924. I'm not sure how far I'm going to have to go until I get it to work.

Richard James
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:10 pm

I think I've now managed to install it by deleting the ages for anyone born before 1930. I hope no one over the age of 85 will take part in any Richmond Junior Club events.

Michael Flatt
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Michael Flatt » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:20 pm

The problem when reading a CSV file might simply be that you haven't ticked the box to indicate that the first line of the data file contains column headers.

If you continue to have problems it would be best to contact Neil Hayward, email: neil@UTUSwiss.co.uk, Tel: 01793 336941 / 07775 593976

Richard James
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:30 pm

I'd sent an email to Neil as well (he hasn't replied yet) but thought I might get a quicker reply here.

Michael Flatt
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Michael Flatt » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:53 pm

The ECF grading list when downloaded from the ECF website is in CSV format and doesn't contain dates of birth. Juniors are identified by their age at the beginning of the season (31st August).

Also, Walter Adams doesn't have a current grade and is absent from the downloadable list.

Are you using the ECF Master list?

Richard James
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:25 pm

Yes, I'm using the ECF Master List, the latest version downloaded from the SCCU website. I receive regular emails from Richard Haddrell instructing me to do this.

Angus French
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Angus French » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Richard James wrote:First of all, I'm aware that there are two records in the grading list with non-standard characters in the name field, which I have to edit manually before installation (I was responsible for one of these myself!).

I have no problem importing - without any manual edits - the latest (June 2016) grading list into the latest version (1.2.0.1) of UTU Swiss and I can see that ****** ***** has 1920 DOB.
It couldn't be that the software you're using for editing is saving the year part of date fields as YY rather than YYYY?

[Edited to remove name]
Last edited by Angus French on Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Richard James
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Richard James » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Angus French wrote:
Richard James wrote:First of all, I'm aware that there are two records in the grading list with non-standard characters in the name field, which I have to edit manually before installation (I was responsible for one of these myself!).

I have no problem importing - without any manual edits - the latest (June 2016) grading list into the latest version (1.2.0.1) of UTU Swiss and I can see that Walter Adams has 1920 DOB.
It couldn't be that the software you're using for editing is saving the year part of date fields as YY rather than YYYY?


You could well be right. This certainly sounds like a plausible cause of my problem. I usually end up putting it through various combinations of Excel, Libre Office and Open Office before installing it in UTU.

Michael Flatt
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Michael Flatt » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:39 pm

Richard James wrote:Yes, I'm using the ECF Master List, the latest version downloaded from the SCCU website. I receive regular emails from Richard Haddrell instructing me to do this.

Richard James wrote:You could well be right. This certainly sounds like a plausible cause of my problem. I usually end up putting it through various combinations of Excel, Libre Office and Open Office before installing it in UTU.

It would appear that UTU Swiss is working correctly and the error arises from your reformatting/editing of the ECF Master List. The Master List is, of course, only supplied to ECF Graders and is normally used in conjunction with the BCF checking program when processing the grading submission file. The Master List shouldn't need editing.

Tournament organisers who are not ECF graders wouldn't have access to the Master List and would instead rely on the edited public version (in CSV format) which can be downloaded from the ECF grading site and uploaded directly into UTU Swiss.

Mike Gunn
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Mike Gunn » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:20 pm

I have had similar problems with the latest Master List and these are not connected with UTU Swiss (which I don't use). For non-chess related reasons I have two laptops running Windows 10 and Linux respectively.

As usual I loaded the Master List dbf into Excel and saved it as a csv under Windows 10. I get error messages when load this file into Libre Office Calc or the text editor in Linux. My own (home spun) grading software reads the csv file with no complaints (and does what it is supposed to do) so I haven't pursued the matter further but my take on this is just there are some dodgy characters (not players!) in the Master List.

Michael Flatt
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Michael Flatt » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:06 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:I have had similar problems with the latest Master List and these are not connected with UTU Swiss (which I don't use). For non-chess related reasons I have two laptops running Windows 10 and Linux respectively.

As usual I loaded the Master List dbf into Excel and saved it as a csv under Windows 10. I get error messages when load this file into Libre Office Calc or the text editor in Linux. My own (home spun) grading software reads the csv file with no complaints (and does what it is supposed to do) so I haven't pursued the matter further but my take on this is just there are some dodgy characters (not players!) in the Master List.

I would doubt that the problem is with the ECF Master List itself. The errors most likely arise from the software used to convert and save the data to different formats for purposes other than which the Master List was supplied.

It should be remembered that personal data, such as dates of birth, are subject to the Data Protection Act 1998.

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John Clarke
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby John Clarke » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:47 am

"UTU" in Maori can mean payment, revenge, recompense, etc. Is the technology exacting vengeance for some inferior programming? :mrgreen:
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Michael Flatt
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Re: UTU/Tournament Director problem

Postby Michael Flatt » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:07 am

John Clarke wrote:"UTU" in Maori can mean payment, revenge, recompense, etc. Is the technology exacting vengeance for some inferior programming? :mrgreen:

The specific problem raised by the OP concerns data formatting and especially those fields containing dates for which there are a number of options.

When extracting data from a database (.dbf) and saving it as text (.csv) one has to be aware:
1. Some text fields may contain commas (,) and, therefore, one might need to distinguish them by enclosing them in quotes ("") or by specifying the field delimiter as a semi-colon(;) rather than a comma(,) which is the usual default.
2. Dates can be written in a variety of formats (yyyy-mm-dd, yy-mm-dd, dd/mm/yy, dd/mm/yyyy, etc.) which can cause confusion.

Similary, when importing text data (.csv) into a spreadsheet the filter settings may need editing so as to parse the data accurately.

The User should have some idea of what he is doing and not rely on the program default settings which may not be suitable for the specific task he is carrying out.

As mentioned previously the ECF Master Grading List (.dbf) is only made available to registered ECF graders for use in conjunction with the BCF Checker program for the validation of grading submission files prior to sending them to the ECF database administrator.

Normally, tournament controllers and members of the public only have access to the official grading list on the ECF website which can be downloaded as a CSV file and imported without problem into pairing programs (for instance, UTU Swiss and Swiss Manager).


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