Interesting, Andrew. Your knowIedge being superior to mine, can you confirm the hypothesis that Andrew acquired/took over Brian Eley's business?Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pmI was one of many people at Scarborough Congress last October when Andrew Butterworth was invited into the hall to receive a round of applause after he announced his retirement from running his chess business at the end of that season. Anne Manley (known by her middle name) served at the bookstall for many years until she retired a few years ago and many players will know her.
Brian Eley
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Re: Brian Eley
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Re: Brian Eley
... and it has. Now with pictures from the funeral and eulogies from Andreas Wöhle, who says he is a Lutheran pastor from Amsterdam ,and Caroline Entrop (who thinks he "had an argument with the [English] chess federation and they had sued him and he then fled to the Netherlands.").Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:06 amThe Find a Grave website says limited information is shown for the first 3 months after death so more information might appear there soon.
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Re: Brian Eley
I decline to answer that as Eley's disappearance and anything that resulted from that long predates my involvement (I was 12 in 1993 and wouldn't seriously take up chess for another year).Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:00 pmInteresting, Andrew. Your knowIedge being superior to mine, can you confirm the hypothesis that Andrew acquired/took over Brian Eley's business?Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pmI was one of many people at Scarborough Congress last October when Andrew Butterworth was invited into the hall to receive a round of applause after he announced his retirement from running his chess business at the end of that season. Anne Manley (known by her middle name) served at the bookstall for many years until she retired a few years ago and many players will know her.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own
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Re: Brian Eley
I don't think there's any great mystery. Those on the Brian Eley & Co mailing list received a notification that the business had been renamed / sold to Chess Direct. This would have been in the summer of 1991.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:00 pm
I can you confirm the hypothesis that Andrew acquired/took over Brian Eley's business?
Other facts, for Dutch readers, are that the BCF or ECF never sued David/Brian for libel, nor did he attend Eton.
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Re: Brian Eley
After reading that touching tribute from the Pastor, I wondered how much he knew. https://www.kingpinchess.net/2011/10/10 ... rian-eley/ may give the answer, although it may be that some humorist has posted using his name.
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Re: Brian Eley
He may have known it all and been forgiven.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:34 amAfter reading that touching tribute from the Pastor, I wondered how much he knew. https://www.kingpinchess.net/2011/10/10 ... rian-eley/ may give the answer, although it may be that some humorist has posted using his name.
It is certainly strange that Eley was seemingly not difficult to find, but was not apprehended.
It's troubling to think that he has been operating freely for many years in Amsterdam:
Did any of these seperate lives give him access to children?I do not know his friends nor did he want to give the addresses where he lived. He kept it all separate.
I think each of us experienced a different side of him depending on the context in which you met him.
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Re: Brian Eley
Well isn't that a good question.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
As I hope I've made clear before, there's nothing unlawful per se in acquiring a business from a previous owner, even if that previous owner had a dubious reputation, and I assume Eley didn't say "I'm about to abscond from police bail and want to wind up my affairs beforehand". However, the new owners were presumably questioned at some point, if only to see whether they had any information as to Eley's likely whereabouts, and it might be illuminating to know what they said. But I suppose it's all water under the bridge now ...Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:01 pmI don't think there's any great mystery. Those on the Brian Eley & Co mailing list received a notification that the business had been renamed / sold to Chess Direct. This would have been in the summer of 1991.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:00 pm
I can you confirm the hypothesis that Andrew acquired/took over Brian Eley's business?
Other facts, for Dutch readers, are that the BCF or ECF never sued David/Brian for libel, nor did he attend Eton.
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Re: Brian Eley
I have sent the following email to Julian Clissold.
Dear Julian
Sorry to bother you, but there is a course of action I would like the ECF to consider taking.
As you are no doubt aware, Brian Eley, the 1972 British champion, died recently. You will also be aware that a considerable number of allegations were made against him regarding offences against younger people and that he fled the country thirty years ago as a result and did not return. As he was never obliged to face a court to answer those charges, his death left his accusers, and perhaps English chess generally, in a very unsatisfactory situation, especially as some of the accusers had complained about him to the then BCF some years prior to his flight.
What I want to propose is that the ECF carry out a review of their actions in relation to Eley and that they invite submissions to that review from any interested parties. Such a review would presumably involve, among other things, an examination of any reports, letters, or other documents relating to Eley held by the ECF, as well as any actions taken by the organisation at the time.
I appreciate that the ECF's resources are limited and that these events took place a long time ago, but of course Eley's death meant that issues were left outstanding: people who were affected by his alleged actions have had no opportunity to see the matter resolved. Moreover, because a number of people have said that complaints to the BCF were seemingly not acted on, this is an apparent stain on the organisation's reputation which needs to be addressed and the truth established - both because the individuals involved are entitled to know what was and was not done and because the ECF's members are entitled to see it do the right thing.
I hope you will give this proposal serious consideration. If you are not the right person to whom it should be addressed, please accept my apologies and pass it to the correct party. It may in any event be shown to anybody you may see fit. (I should perhaps add that I was not myself personally involved or affected in any way.)
Yours sincerely
Justin Horton
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
I very much hope this has an effect.
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Re: Brian Eley
I've raised this point before - the principle of dual criminality may have applied here, by which I mean that country A typically won't extradite to country B unless the offence which the person is alleged to committed in country B would also have been an offence if committed in country A.Nick Burrows wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:49 amHe may have known it all and been forgiven.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:34 amAfter reading that touching tribute from the Pastor, I wondered how much he knew. https://www.kingpinchess.net/2011/10/10 ... rian-eley/ may give the answer, although it may be that some humorist has posted using his name.
It is certainly strange that Eley was seemingly not difficult to find, but was not apprehended.
It's troubling to think that he has been operating freely for many years in Amsterdam:
Did any of these seperate lives give him access to children?I do not know his friends nor did he want to give the addresses where he lived. He kept it all separate.
I think each of us experienced a different side of him depending on the context in which you met him.
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Re: Brian Eley
Although we don't really have any concrete reason to think that this applied here, do we?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
I don't think we've any concrete reason to believe either that it did or didn't. But it's one possible reason extradition didn't occur. Given that Eley was hiding pretty much in plain sight, there don't seem to be too many plausible alternatives.JustinHorton wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:54 pmAlthough we don't really have any concrete reason to think that this applied here, do we?
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Re: Brian Eley
No really, I think we should assume that Holland also has laws against the abuse of minors unless we have good reason to believe otherwise.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:02 pmI don't think we've any concrete reason to believe either that it did or didn't.
If the Dutch police had rejected the pursuit of Eley because he had committed, by Dutch law, no crime, would they not have said so at the outset?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:02 pmGiven that Eley was hiding pretty much in plain sight, there don't seem to be too many plausible alternatives.
(Of course there are very plausible alternatives, including the possibility that offences like this were not and are not diligently pursued by police forces.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
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Re: Brian Eley
I congratulate Justin on his letter to ECF. I doubt record-keeping was good in those days, and even if it were, there has probably been a bonfire since.
Chairman - "Any Other Business?"
X - "We've had another ten complaints about Eley"
Secretary - "Should I minute that?"
All - "NOOOO!!!"
On the later point, "the possibility that offences like this were not and are not diligently pursued by police forces." Well, yes.
Chairman - "Any Other Business?"
X - "We've had another ten complaints about Eley"
Secretary - "Should I minute that?"
All - "NOOOO!!!"
On the later point, "the possibility that offences like this were not and are not diligently pursued by police forces." Well, yes.