Not Sure Championship Relevance?

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John Upham
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby John Upham » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:49 pm

Michael J R White wrote:It would be good to gain clarity on what payments the ECF Home Director has received in his role as Director of Home Chess.


I have a couple of questions:
1. Do you have any evidence that validates your suggestion?
2. Will you be making the same suggestion about other Directors?

Just like anyone else, AR is entitled to remuneration from chess activities.

AFAIK, all ECF Directors are unpaid (but are entitled to claim expenses) unless someone is able to contradict this?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:00 pm

John Upham wrote:AFAIK, all ECF Directors are unpaid (but are entitled to claim expenses) unless someone is able to contradict this?


It's the multiple hats problem, which has been a potential problem and issue that the chess world has lived with for many years. The problem is that the pool of potential ECF directors overlaps with the pool of people who might expect to be paid for some or all of their chess activities.

So someone has to try to ensure that if X, a director of the ECF is being paid to run an event or perform some function by Y, that it's because Y considers X to be the best person for the job rather than because of their status as an ECF director. Equally if it's Y's private event, then ECF resources should be used in support of the event on merit rather than just because of the involvement of X.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Adam Raoof » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:18 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:So someone has to try to ensure that if X, a director of the ECF is being paid to run an event or perform some function by Y, that it's because Y considers X to be the best person for the job rather than because of their status as an ECF director. Equally if it's Y's private event, then ECF resources should be used in support of the event on merit rather than just because of the involvement of X.


Often, despite...

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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby John Upham » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:22 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Often, despite...


You need an agent Adam: perhaps a termite watcher could represent you?

You could take 90% and the tw the balance...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Roger de Coverly » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:51 am

Michael J R White wrote:In relation to 1; It was posted in 2009 on a Facebook page, "Adam Raoof for FIDE president", that because the DCMS grant was secured, Adam Raoof would be paid for his role of director of home chess.
2. If it turns out he was being paid through use of the grant, then yes, I think the net should be widened.



Election material is one thing , actual accounts are something else. There's a mysterious shortfall in Game Fee income for Congresses that the ECF is unable or unwilling to investigate. Apart from that and the issues around the Sheffield British, there's nothing in the published accounts to suggest payments to Directors other than for specific jobs like running the British, being the team captain or coaching at the international Junior events. Even for these, it's very believable that the ECF is paying below the market rate.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby LawrenceCooper » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:34 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Michael J R White wrote:In relation to 1; It was posted in 2009 on a Facebook page, "Adam Raoof for FIDE president", that because the DCMS grant was secured, Adam Raoof would be paid for his role of director of home chess.
2. If it turns out he was being paid through use of the grant, then yes, I think the net should be widened.



Election material is one thing , actual accounts are something else. There's a mysterious shortfall in Game Fee income for Congresses that the ECF is unable or unwilling to investigate. Apart from that and the issues around the Sheffield British, there's nothing in the published accounts to suggest payments to Directors other than for specific jobs like running the British, being the team captain or coaching at the international Junior events. Even for these, it's very believable that the ECF is paying below the market rate.


As I am mentioned here by implication I am happy to comment. I have not received any fee for the England captaincy (2009-2011) only my flight & accommodation costs. I have been paid to be a coach/Head of Delegation at European & World Youth, Glorney & World Junior events all of which were arranged by past junior directors. If I attend the World Junior in 2012 I will not receive a fee as I am the director organising the English participation in the event.

Peter Turner
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Peter Turner » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:55 am

I would like to add to Lawrence's posting above. The ECF currently does not have funds available to support our juniors competing abroad. All costs are covered by parental contribution and privately sourced sponsorship. It is very expensive for any junior representing England. It is not only the cost for the youngster competing, a responsible adult is expected to accompany the player and they have to pay their share of the cost of a coach and team manager. We are talking thousands of £s, we are fortunate to have a JD and group of parents who are working hard to ensure we are represented in World & European championships.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Peter D Williams » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:00 pm

Peter Turner wrote:I would like to add to Lawrence's posting above. The ECF currently does not have funds available to support our juniors competing abroad. All costs are covered by parental contribution and privately sourced sponsorship. It is very expensive for any junior representing England. It is not only the cost for the youngster competing, a responsible adult is expected to accompany the player and they have to pay their share of the cost of a coach and team manager. We are talking thousands of £s, we are fortunate to have a JD and group of parents who are working hard to ensure we are represented in World & European championships.



Peter Turner is correct all costs are covered by parental contribution. We paid in full when Peter went as did the rest of the group. Im not so sure about the ECF does not have funds available to support our juniors aboard choses not to i would suggest? This may will be the right course of action by the ECF my only concern is that a family who had a talented junior but who do not have the funds the child would not be able to go? We prefer to pay for all our chess costs with out asking for help but others may not be able to do this.I would like to think there is some sort of help for these parents?
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Adam Raoof » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:07 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:Peter Turner is correct all costs are covered by parental contribution. We paid in full when Peter went as did the rest of the group. Im not so sure about the ECF does not have funds available to support our juniors aboard choses not to i would suggest? This may will be the right course of action by the ECF my only concern is that a family who had a talented junior but who do not have the funds the child would not be able to go? We prefer to pay for all our chess costs with out asking for help but others may not be able to do this.I would like to think there is some sort of help for these parents?


Not all costs may be covered directly by parental contribution - there is financial help from the John Robinson Trust, the British Chess Educational Trust and several other sources such as EPSCA that may support some players, at least partially. There are local junior organisations with their own resources. The Friends of Chess has never had a policy of supporting juniors as there are so many alternative avenues for parents who can't afford the full cost to explore. The ECF junior budget is all of £5k, so any contributions to that budget are welcome! We are working on a number of fundraising alternatives.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Peter D Williams » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:22 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Peter D Williams wrote:Peter Turner is correct all costs are covered by parental contribution. We paid in full when Peter went as did the rest of the group. Im not so sure about the ECF does not have funds available to support our juniors aboard choses not to i would suggest? This may will be the right course of action by the ECF my only concern is that a family who had a talented junior but who do not have the funds the child would not be able to go? We prefer to pay for all our chess costs with out asking for help but others may not be able to do this.I would like to think there is some sort of help for these parents?


Not all costs may be covered directly by parental contribution - there is financial help from the John Robinson Trust, the British Chess Educational Trust and several other sources such as EPSCA that may support some players, at least partially. There are local junior organisations with their own resources. The Friends of Chess has never had a policy of supporting juniors as there are so many alternative avenues for parents who can't afford the full cost to explore. The ECF junior budget is all of £5k, so any contributions to that budget are welcome! We are working on a number of fundraising alternatives.



Yes i forgot parents can ask John Robinson trust for help. What is Friends of chess? We have always paid the costs in full our self so have never needed to explore other avenues. Thanks for the quick reply Adam. Must come along to anther golders green rapidplay soon!
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Adam Raoof » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:26 pm

Friends of Chess - http://friendsofchess.wordpress.com/ and we would love to see you again at Golders Green!

Peter Turner
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Peter Turner » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:03 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Peter D Williams wrote:Peter Turner is correct all costs are covered by parental contribution. We paid in full when Peter went as did the rest of the group. Im not so sure about the ECF does not have funds available to support our juniors aboard choses not to i would suggest? This may will be the right course of action by the ECF my only concern is that a family who had a talented junior but who do not have the funds the child would not be able to go? We prefer to pay for all our chess costs with out asking for help but others may not be able to do this.I would like to think there is some sort of help for these parents?


Not all costs may be covered directly by parental contribution - there is financial help from the John Robinson Trust, the British Chess Educational Trust and several other sources such as EPSCA that may support some players, at least partially. There are local junior organisations with their own resources. The Friends of Chess has never had a policy of supporting juniors as there are so many alternative avenues for parents who can't afford the full cost to explore. The ECF junior budget is all of £5k, so any contributions to that budget are welcome! We are working on a number of fundraising alternatives.


I repeat, "ECF does not currenty have funds to support junior chess". The £5,000 available is a grant from the JR Trust!!

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Adam Raoof » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:08 pm

Peter Turner wrote:I repeat, "ECF does not currenty have funds to support junior chess". The £5,000 available is a grant from the JR Trust!!


Your point is taken, but the JRT is there for the ECF to ask for funds. Therefore the ECF has funds to support Junior chess - just not the whole amount, but some of the interest on the whole amount in the gift of the trustees.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Matthew Turner » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:17 pm

I think the point is that of the money given to the ECF in game fee and membership, none at all goes to support junior chess. I suppose there are more important priorities like the rebranding review.

Paul Sanders
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Re: Not Sure Championship Relevance?

Postby Paul Sanders » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:31 pm

It would be nice to think that a proportion of junior subs could be guaranteed to the junior budget...


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