Not Sure Championship Relevance?

[E Michael White]

If the biggest complaint about the BUCA Championship is that its organiser noted publically that no one was reading a notice he'd put up.

and John included various pictures

John

In your sign picture you should note the lack of exclamation marks ( !) . Perhaps you need to review modern usage of this punctuation mark in SMS and short emails etc. It may mean

1. a joke or sarcastic comment
2. a new comment considered relevant by the author
3. an expression of annoyance as if to say " you should have known that "
4. extreme emotion etc.

It’s the easy confusion of (a) and (c) which the author of a sign must avoid as it can come across as a patronising, hectoring or insulting to the reader.

Take Peter Turners unrelated comment as an example :-

I repeat, "ECF does not currently have funds to support junior chess". The £5,000 available is a grant from the JR Trust!!

He expresses frustation with the (!!) at having to repeat what he considers obvious and a gives the impression it should be obvious to others. It is clearly not a joke.

Ironically for Peter he later admits to not knowing for certain whether the JRT is a Discretionary or Protective trust, which questions the validity of the word gift and rebounds accordingly. However no one should be offended by that remark.

A simple sign without (!) as arbiter signage such as "Please put results into the box ------> " should be recommended.

Regarding arbiter noise the Forum has been there before with colours reversed : -

Hi Ken,

I think I was distracted more by arbiters than players in my surprise 4NCL appearance that lasted for six hours earlier this month

If you end up playing in the Big Slick International, It will be interesting to see whether I as the arbiter can disturb you more than the other 29 players combined.

My list of gripes with arbiters so far includes them distracting the players by talking loudly (when I shushed two of them I got the response "We're arbiters man, you can't shush us or tell us what to do" and they carried on making a lot of noise,

Well Loz, Boots, Feet, Nails, Masts, Colours...

[LawrenceCooper]

Regarding arbiter noise the Forum has been there before with colours reversed : -

Hi Ken,

I think I was distracted more by arbiters than players in my surprise 4NCL appearance that lasted for six hours earlier this month

If you end up playing in the Big Slick International, It will be interesting to see whether I as the arbiter can disturb you more than the other 29 players combined.

My list of gripes with arbiters so far includes them distracting the players by talking loudly (when I shushed two of them I got the response "We're arbiters man, you can't shush us or tell us what to do" and they carried on making a lot of noise,

Well Loz, Boots, Feet, Nails, Masts, Colours...

[/quote]

Pardon?

[Roger de Coverly]

Perhaps you need to review modern usage of this punctuation mark in SMS and short emails etc. It may mean

1. a joke or sarcastic comment
2. a new comment considered relevant by the author
3. an expression of annoyance as if to say " you should have known that "
4. extreme emotion etc.

It’s the easy confusion of (a) and (c) which the author of a sign must avoid as it can come across as a patronising, hectoring or insulting to the reader.

Without saying that I don't believe it, you might wish to give a reference for these assertions, particularly if you are advocating that signs should be approved by the sign police as containing non-insulting content.

Many chess players stick to traditional forms of grammar and punctuation, so would not be familiar with SMS conventions. In a chess context !! also means extremely good move.

[E Michael White]

Try Google

The first reference I see on my cooked google is : -

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/dep ... ode06.html

End of modern linguistics lessons for mathematicians.

[Roger de Coverly]

http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/dep ... ode06.html

That link is 15 years old as the copyright date is 1997 and thus the piece would have been written prior to the mass use of SMS. It is, in any event, about formal writing, which I don't think should cover Information Signs at a chess event.

I'm looking for something which validates the interpretation of !! as insulting.

Whilst what you say may be the case, it's an meaning new to me, and perhaps to other players at the Classic. If Alex H's sign at BUCA contained !!, his audience there might be expected to be more familiar with SMS usage, but did not object.

(edit) To answer my own question, I did find http://www.lingo2word.com/dictionary.ph ... go&pager=1

That confirms !! to mean irritated but only with : ) added to the end.
!!! means very important. !! on its own isn't claimed to have a meaning.

In many computer languages a single ! means not. (/edit)

[Mick Norris]

SNIP

Take Peter Turners unrelated comment as an example :-

I repeat, "ECF does not currently have funds to support junior chess". The £5,000 available is a grant from the JR Trust!!

He expresses frustation with the (!!) at having to repeat what he considers obvious and a gives the impression it should be obvious to others. It is clearly not a joke.

Ironically for Peter he later admits to not knowing for certain whether the JRT is a Discretionary or Protective trust, which questions the validity of the word gift and rebounds accordingly. However no one should be offended by that remark.

SNIP

If it bothers you, here is the latest Report and accounts for the JRT

[Michael Jones]

In a chess context !! also means extremely good move.

Perhaps Alex wished to indicate that it would be an extremely good move to ascertain the whereabouts of the toilets from the information displayed, rather than having to ask.

[Phil Makepeace]

Perhaps Alex wished to indicate that it would be an extremely good move to ascertain the whereabouts of the toilets from the information displayed, rather than having to ask.

Alas...

[E Michael White]

That confirms !! to mean irritated but only with : ) added to the end.
!!! means very important. !! on its own isn't claimed to have a meaning.

Roger

I wasn’t seeking to suggest that ! or !! in isolation means irritation or frustration. In text only messages they act to supercharge emotion expressed by the written words. The example I gave sets the emotion by beginning with “I repeat”, which is more likely to be mildly adverse. Upping the ante with !! is fine if you can be sure that the meaning of the words is clear. As many Internet articles say they can also highlight positive emotions. Having said that a single ! is the international symbol for irritating in the chemical sense but that is purely coincidental I guess.

The development of ! , !! and ? undoubtedly arose from e:mail usage from the 1980s and PCs from 1975 (the IBM 5100) and subsequent SMS, when modern messaging and notes became shorter and more frequent. The picture emoticons assist in setting the initial mood of a message and are sometimes amplified by ! or !!. Chess players and mathematicians usually prefer a strict one-to-one coding to relate ideas logically so relying on short messages with amplifying !! carries risks.

[Roger de Coverly]

I wasn’t seeking to suggest that ! or !! in isolation means irritation or frustration.

No, but you were suggesting that organisers not use it on their signage.

My view is that the wording of signage is a personal statement of the organiser and you really don't want to establish a sign police whether the ECF or a self appointed guardian, telling arbiters and organisers what they can and cannot write. The ECF should have said quite firmly that the wording of signs at the London Chess Classic was outside of its control and declined involvement. If individual players wanted the ECF to have a sign policy, they would have to take the long route of getting their local league or county to agree to support it as a policy, then get the Council rep to get in on the ECF Council agenda and finally then get the ECF Council to vote for it.

[E Michael White]

Roger

Articles on communication suggest being careful with written media using ! or !! for the reasons I tried to portray. I didnt suggest a sign police and wouldnt.

Using ! are risky unless you can be sure that the words are unambiguous, when addressing 200 or so chess players. You yourself often go off at a tangent with what you believe is a logical progression for example game fee v membership but as a result undersense what should be a strategic opportunity presented by charitable status. Chess players often dont sense the unwritten alternatives because they see their own plan or objective as being superior and miss opportunities. Its understandable when spending so much time on the black and white logic of a game.

Chess players like to have their IMOs FWIWs and related comment. The expression "get over it is" is similar to "deal with it" or "... period" in that they are aggressive attempts to reduce the opportunity for reply. In so doing the aggressive speaker brings the level of expertise and quality to their own. Reasonable if it’s up a level but not ok if it’s down to their level. Anyone using or supporting expressions like "deal with it" or "get over it" is liable to allegations of conceit, arrogance or pompousness. Best avoided I should think.

[Roger de Coverly]

I didnt suggest a sign police and wouldnt.

Anyone using or supporting expressions like "deal with it" or "get over it" is liable to allegations of conceit, arrogance or pompousness. Best avoided I should think.

You are however lecturing organisers on what they should put on their signs. Players form their own views as to whether arbiters and organisers are conceited, arrogant or pompous. If anything, humorous signs defuse these opinions whilst imposing rules such as zero default times enhance then.

[John Upham]

Since it is friday can we discuss the differences betweens signs and notices: I'd like to give SG more material to draw from.

[E Michael White]

Roger

There was a congress a few years ago who stated words to the effect:-

this is what we offer
this is what we do
this is how we do it
any disrespect to to arbiters will be punished

....................... Take it or leave it !

That congress is no more.

Presentation is something the ECF should look at and be image aware.

[Roger de Coverly]

That congress is no more.

No surprise there. But presumably because of lack of entries, not the intervention of the ECF. I don't recall the Congress in question, but it's likely to have had an unpleasant atmosphere, to judge from the wording. The various notices at the London Classic or BUCA didn't fall into that league. Or do you have to know that they were a parody?