4NCL FIDE Rated Congress 30 Jan-1 Feb 2015

[Roger de Coverly]

Some players do seem to have retrained themselves to get into the 30 second rhythm, but I value the increment very little.

Provided you don't run low on time, the simple approach is to ignore the clock and play moves once you have decided what they should be. An intermediate time control has the advantage or disadvantage of forcing a faster pace of play in that if you are playing G/120 without increment, you are more likely to see players at move 30 with 10 minutes or less on the clock. That's a pace of play which would have lost them on time in a 36/90 + 30 or 40/100 + 20 setting.

90 30 is one of the more difficult move rates to pace yourself. You can afford more time than a three hour evening league game, but how much more?

[NickFaulks]

90 30 is one of the more difficult move rates to pace yourself. You can afford more time than a three hour evening league game, but how much more?

That's my point. When I play an evening game, starting at 7pm after a full day's work, I accept that it's going to be a bit of a rush.
I'm happy that it doesn't affect my FIDE rating, and I believe that most players better than me share this view.
When I devote a full day to playing in a tournament, even if there are two games, I expect better. 90 30 doesn't give me that.

[NickFaulks]

The London Classic Open, supposedly England's premier open Swiss, is G/105.

What metric are you using to judge "premier" here? It's not the one with the strongest entry; that's Gibraltar. It's not the longest-running; that's Hastings. I don't think it's the biggest; that's probably Gibraltar again (of course, both are dwarfed in total entries by the British Championships festival, but that's split over many more events).

You're absolutely right, I was overlooking Gibraltar. It's easy to forget that is an ENG event, even if it is not strictly speaking held in England. I had not forgotten Hastings, which does not boast such a generous prize fund, or the British, which does not qualify as "open".

[David Sedgwick]

(For the benefit of those who may not know: The FIDE Qualification Commission, of which Nick is Secretary, has to scrap the requirement that in a FIDE Rated event any initial time control has to be after 40 moves.)

Indeed, but once established these rules are always difficult to remove. The original impetus for this one did of course come from England.

So did the most vociferous opposition to it.

By the way, 40/100 + 20 is fine for FIDE rating. The equivalent 36/90 + 30 is not, and I freely accept that is absurd.

Hurrah! We are making progress.

The London Classic Open, supposedly England's premier open Swiss, is G/105. Is this something to do with Malcolm's Kasparov connection?

It reflects the time available and the need to play two rounds a day at the weekend.

The 5 round grading limited weekday tournaments, one round a day, are 40/90 + 30 + 30 secs/move. 35/75 +30 + 30 secs/move would have been a possibility for the Open, were it permitted.

It's a bit rich for you to blame Kasparov for the decisions of the Ilyumzhinov regime.

[Martin Crichton]

Obviously this time control issue is quite contencious for some people (not me) however I would like to know if a recent rule / peculiarity FIDE time control is going to be addressed.
I am aware that FIDE have (had?) a two tier rule regarding time controls for players under 2200 and over 2200. Adam Raoof has based his under 2200 tournaments on this rule because he can fit 3 games into 1 day.
But it seems ludicrous and discriminatory that FIDE can get away with making up different time controls for players based on their rating. I am stunned beyound belief that no one has challanged FIDE on this issue..... FIDE are a law onto themselves and seem to be making up rules willy nilly as they see fit.
For the record I agree with the relaxed time controls (it is then up to players if they want to enter and play to those 3 games in a day time controls if they want) but it should be applicable to all players regardless of rating not just those rated under 2200.

[Roger de Coverly]

Obviously this time control issue is quite contencious for some people (not me) however I would like to know if a recent rule / peculiarity FIDE time control is going to be addressed.

It's by no means a recent rule. From memory, that rule and the parallel rule about under 1600 events have been in place since FIDE first announced its intention to extend the International Elo scale downwards. That dates back to 2000/2001 when Kirsan made perhaps the first of one of his several attempts to abolish chess "as we know it". You may recall the proposal that for non-increment events including those with Norms, the move rate should be 40 moves in 90 minutes plus 30 ( or was it 15? ). That's faster than was and is commonplace in some British weekenders.

It's only with Adam's series of Hampstead events that anyone has tried using these rules in the UK. In the case of Hampstead, that the size is limited and London based players have plentiful options elsewhere, prevents a major outcry that players rated over 2200 are excluded. I played the Herts Congress a few weeks ago. By virtue of being a tournament with three rounds on Saturday and two on Sunday, it uses a three and a half hour playing session and in the Open featured the handful of top local players with ratings above 2200. I don't think the organisers would remotely contemplate becoming FIDE rated if it required exclusion of these players, many of whom support their local event year in, year out.

[Adam Raoof]

I tend to agree. In fact the Hampstead Congresses, like the longer running Parisian equivalents, are only specifically for players Under 2200 (rather than Open) because FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day otherwise with any player rated 2200+ taking part. I would never choose to exclude players of any rating from an event.

Personally, as an organiser Fischer timings are preferable, but ironically as a player I get little chance to experience them for myself!

Obviously this time control issue is quite contencious for some people (not me) however I would like to know if a recent rule / peculiarity FIDE time control is going to be addressed.
I am aware that FIDE have (had?) a two tier rule regarding time controls for players under 2200 and over 2200. Adam Raoof has based his under 2200 tournaments on this rule because he can fit 3 games into 1 day.
But it seems ludicrous and discriminatory that FIDE can get away with making up different time controls for players based on their rating. I am stunned beyound belief that no one has challanged FIDE on this issue..... FIDE are a law onto themselves and seem to be making up rules willy nilly as they see fit.
For the record I agree with the relaxed time controls (it is then up to players if they want to enter and play to those 3 games in a day time controls if they want) but it should be applicable to all players regardless of rating not just those rated under 2200.

[David Sedgwick]

Obviously this time control issue is quite contencious for some people (not me) however I would like to know if a recent rule / peculiarity FIDE time control is going to be addressed.
I am aware that FIDE have (had?) a two tier rule regarding time controls for players under 2200 and over 2200. Adam Raoof has based his under 2200 tournaments on this rule because he can fit 3 games into 1 day.
But it seems ludicrous and discriminatory that FIDE can get away with making up different time controls for players based on their rating. I am stunned beyound belief that no one has challanged FIDE on this issue..... FIDE are a law onto themselves and seem to be making up rules willy nilly as they see fit.
For the record I agree with the relaxed time controls (it is then up to players if they want to enter and play to those 3 games in a day time controls if they want) but it should be applicable to all players regardless of rating not just those rated under 2200.

I tend to agree. In fact the Hampstead Congresses, like the longer running Parisian equivalents, are only specifically for players Under 2200 (rather than Open) because FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day otherwise with any player rated 2200+ taking part. I would never choose to exclude players of any rating from an event.

At the FIDE Congress 2008 in Dresden, I tried to get three hour games accepted as eligible for FIDE rating for players of all strengths.

That was the same Congress at which I sought to block the 40 move rule.

I failed on both counts. I wish the next person(s) to try better luck.

[NickFaulks]

FIDE are a law onto themselves and seem to be making up rules willy nilly as they see fit.

It is the FIDE rating system.

For the record I agree with the relaxed time controls (it is then up to players if they want to enter and play to those 3 games in a day time controls if they want) but it should be applicable to all players regardless of rating not just those rated under 2200.

It is felt that it would not be good if some top player who is particularly effective in quickish games ( Nakamura, perhaps ) could achieve a 2900 rating by beating up all comers in two hour games. There seems to be a general feeling among decent players ( you can argue about whether 2200 is the right cutoff ) that 4 hours is the minimum time required to produce a fully serious game of chess.

[NickFaulks]

FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day

Chess players must be getting soft. In the 1970s, I'm sure I remember Saturdays with three four hour games, starting at 9am, 2pm and 7pm. They were not relaxing!

[Roger de Coverly]

because FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day otherwise with any player rated 2200+ taking part.

I can recall Hastings running its weekend open as a FIDE rated tournament with three rounds on the Saturday and move rates of 40 moves in 100 minutes plus 20 to finish. I don't know if they weren't exploiting a drafting error and that three rounds and potentially twelve hours of play isn't really allowed. This was non-increment, presumably for scheduling reasons, so 10.2 came back into play.

[David Sedgwick]

FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day

Chess players must be getting soft. In the 1970s, I'm sure I remember Saturdays with three four hour games, starting at 9am, 2pm and 7pm. They were not relaxing!

That requires a venue to be available from 8am until midnight. That was affordable in the 1970s. It isn't now.

There seems to be a general feeling among decent players ( you can argue about whether 2200 is the right cutoff ) that 4 hours is the minimum time required to produce a fully serious game of chess.

Okay, I have a suggestion.

Raise the cutoff from 2200 to 2400.

Make games that are too fast for FIDE Standardplay Rating (less than four hours for 2400 plus, less than 3 hours for 1600 to 2200) eligible for FIDE Rapidplay Rating.

[NickFaulks]

because FIDE rules make it impossible to have three rounds in a day otherwise with any player rated 2200+ taking part.

I can recall Hastings running its weekend open as a FIDE rated tournament with three rounds on the Saturday and move rates of 40 moves in 100 minutes plus 20 to finish. I don't know if they weren't exploiting a drafting error and that three rounds and potentially twelve hours of play isn't really allowed.

No, absolutely not. The rules are written explicitly to allow three four hour games.

This was non-increment, presumably for scheduling reasons, so 10.2 came back into play.

There's no reason for that, if digital clocks are available. A five second increment does not cause a breach of the twelve hour rule, although it might make sense to knock off five minutes at the start. A 30 second increment is of course out of the question, since a single game going to move 150 could wreck the whole event.

[NickFaulks]

That was the same Congress at which I sought to block the 40 move rule.

I don't recall that English Civil War, but of course there was a lot of fighting in Dresden and worse things than the 40 move rule got through ( although some never made it into practice and others have since been repealed ). On that issue I'm sure that Bermuda would have been on your side.

[Mike Truran]

Anyway ...... there's a FIDE rated congress at the Holiday Inn Birmingham Airport on 30 Jan-1 Feb, and we look forward to seeing as many of you then as are able to make it.