The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

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LawrenceCooper
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:22 am

Marinel Miu wrote:
I don't know exactly what post of mine hurt so many feelings, enough to be reported.
If it is the post that says " some young players might be tempted to cheat", it was an answer to a post regarding the fact that FIDE will give you the possibility to get rating just by playing online. I said initially that this will end the over the board tournaments that offer mainly ratings and I received a response that you cannot replace the OTB while playing online because some people might get extra help. I just replied back sharing my point of you in the same time agreeing the other post.
To my defense, for the puritans reporting my post, simply facts of the players caught cheating in tournaments, show that they were almost exclusively young.
The quote in question was "I totally agree with you, but some young players obsessed with rating will be happy just to win themselves a FIDE status recognition at any costs even this means cheating. They can't stand the fact that other players are superior and they will be tempted to cheat just to keep up."

Michael Flatt
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Michael Flatt » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:24 am

Marinel,

Cheating in chess is a topical and sensitive subject. So, it is most unfair that you make wild unfounded accusations against a particular group of individuals.

My experience, both as a coach and organiser of Junior and Adult events, is that the behaviour you describe is very rare amongst Junior players and even chess players in general.

You should bear in mind that children mimic the behaviour and attitudes of adults which represents one of the many learning strategies they employ as they develop as players and as individuals. It is the responsibility of adults to provide better models for the children to follow.

As a Chess Organiser you can't really afford to offend potential players, especially since more and more youngsters are taking up chess and entering adult competitions. They are serious and committed players who really enjoy the game and the opportunity to play competitively.

Not only do you risk alienating the children you risk alienating their parents, many of whom are players themselves.

Mike Truran
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Mike Truran » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:02 am

Michael, without wanting to start a flame war, it wasn't an accusation against a particular group of individuals, it was an accusation about particular individuals within a group. I think the distinction is important. Moreover, when we have had past examples such as a junior caught cheating at an e2e4 event I'm not sure that the accusation is necessarily as "wild" or "unfounded" as one might think.

But I think we would all agree that this is a difficult, controversial and emotive area, and it may be best to leave things there.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:13 am

Just for clarification, are Lawrence and Carl seriously suggesting that nobody cheats?

or are they saying the problem isn't confined to juniors?

On the other hand, I think people are more likely to cheat to win money than to raise their ratings...

Marinel Miu
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Marinel Miu » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:19 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Just for clarification, are Lawrence and Carl seriously suggesting that nobody cheats?

or are they saying the problem isn't confined to juniors?

On the other hand, I think people are more likely to cheat to win money than to raise their ratings...
This is the reason why in my Ches Freedom 4.5 tournament which is not confined to ECF/FIDE rules and only dedicated to financial rewards, I will limit the number of times a player can leave the playing hall to two times /game.

NickFaulks
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:29 am

Marinel Miu wrote: I will limit the number of times a player can leave the playing hall to two times /game.
Is this mentioned in the entry form? It most certainly should be.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:33 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Just for clarification, are Lawrence and Carl seriously suggesting that nobody cheats?
No.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Location: Bideford

Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:47 am

Marinel Miu wrote:I will limit the number of times a player can leave the playing hall to two times /game.
...and with that rule, you've lost me as a potential player. (Not that I was likely to enter anyway, mind you - the location is too far from my home.)

Marinel Miu
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Marinel Miu » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:03 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Marinel Miu wrote:I will limit the number of times a player can leave the playing hall to two times /game.
...and with that rule, you've lost me as a potential player. (Not that I was likely to enter anyway, mind you - the location is too far from my home.)
I'm sorry to hear this Mr Rudd, a player of your level would probably easily secure £100 (4.5) at least.
Games are approx one hour session and I don't want to give the impression that anybody can just hide with a phone in the toilet and win the money.
Your decision will make it easier for the players who do enter to win prizes. :wink:

Marinel Miu
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Marinel Miu » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:20 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Marinel Miu wrote: I will limit the number of times a player can leave the playing hall to two times /game.
Is this mentioned in the entry form? It most certainly should be.
It is mentioned on the Chess Freedom FAQ right at the top. Entries are accepted online just by paying the entry fee. There is no entry form that can be posted. In exceptional circumstances entries of the players that I know can be accepted via telephone or email.
It will apply when the opponent complains or the arbiters suspects "unnatural behavior".
Initially the arbiter will just warn the player that he has already left the playing hall two times.
Common sense will prevail.

Mick Norris
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:38 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Just for clarification, are Lawrence and Carl seriously suggesting that nobody cheats?

or are they saying the problem isn't confined to juniors?

On the other hand, I think people are more likely to cheat to win money than to raise their ratings...
Kevin

We know people cheat, twas ever thus albeit easier now with the technology, and I don't think the problem is confined to juniors, nor is there real evidence that they cheat more than adults - I agree with you that cheating for money seems more likely than cheating for rating points

My experience of Rapidplay is that players sit down and play their games without usually leaving their seat mid game, so I think the instances of cheating in Rapidplays must be much lower than longplay chess
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Marinel Miu
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Marinel Miu » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:20 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Kevin Thurlow wrote: My experience of Rapidplay is that players sit down and play their games without usually leaving their seat mid game, so I think the instances of cheating in Rapidplays must be much lower than longplay chess
It is well pointed out Mr Norris. I play on monthly basis in rapid-play tournaments myself and players do play their games at the table rarely getting out more than twice during a game. This is also my experience with rapid-play tournaments.
Nobody will be policing the toilets and nobody will be restricted to use the toilet unless it is an obvious reason to do so.
The tournament will be quite small and everybody will be watching everybody as many tables will have something to play for.
When somebody is leaving the playing room every couple of moves for quite a while even if he is not cheating he can put off his opponent just by planting the idea that he might get help. This is not the kind of chess I want to see. "Strategies" should be only over the board!

Michael Flatt
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Michael Flatt » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:51 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Michael, without wanting to start a flame war, it wasn't an accusation against a particular group of individuals, it was an accusation about particular individuals within a group. I think the distinction is important. Moreover, when we have had past examples such as a junior caught cheating at an e2e4 event I'm not sure that the accusation is necessarily as "wild" or "unfounded" as one might think.

But I think we would all agree that this is a difficult, controversial and emotive area, and it may be best to leave things there.
Flame war? What's that about?

Mike Truran
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Mike Truran » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:58 pm

flame war
noun informal
A lengthy exchange of angry or abusive messages between users of an Internet message board or forum.

Mike Truran
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Re: The Real Deal! 4.5 guarantees £100

Post by Mike Truran » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:06 pm

You should bear in mind that children mimic the behaviour and attitudes of adults which represents one of the many learning strategies they employ as they develop as players and as individuals. It is the responsibility of adults to provide better models for the children to follow.
I completely agree.

Both players and (in particular) parents.

Oh - and arbiters. Fat Controllers making a racket with crisp packets during play don't always set the best of examples.