The qualifying regulations seem clear to me. The only circumstance in which qualifying places cascade to a lower finisher are in FIDE title norm tournaments. The previous practise of cascading places to the highest non-qualified player in other event types has gone.Roger de Coverly wrote:what are the rules cascading the BCQ to a lower finisher?
Thanet Chess Congress 2017
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
I've just heard from Gordon Botley, who I pointed this thread out to and he told me that this is the first he had heard that he qualified for the British and as its so late on he is not certain if he can play. I thought up to now it was routine for the tournament organisers to ask the player whether he wanted to play so that they could give the place to someone else if he didn't want to? Perhaps the Thanet organisers can follow up? If Gordon doesn't want to play there are six players who got 3/5 who appear to meet the criteria and who may jump at the chance.
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
Your post can only be based on a further misunderstanding.Chris Rice wrote:I've just heard from Gordon Botley, who I pointed this thread out to and he told me that this is the first he had heard that he qualified for the British and as its so late on he is not certain if he can play. I thought up to now it was routine for the tournament organisers to ask the player whether he wanted to play so that they could give the place to someone else if he didn't want to? Perhaps the Thanet organisers can follow up? If Gordon doesn't want to play there are six players who got 3/5 who appear to meet the criteria and who may jump at the chance.
This thread is about the Thanet Chess Congress due to take place in August 2017.
Whatever Gordon Botley may have done, it won't include having qualified for the British Championship from an event which has not yet taken place.
Edit: I have now seen that from the list at http://www.britishchesschampionships.co ... iers-2017/ that Gordon Botley has qualified for the British Championship 2017 from the Thanet Congress 2016.
He has the right to defer the place until 2018 if he wishes.
However, contrary to your suggestion, the place would not be transferable to a player on a lower score group.
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
I know I went slightly off topic talking about Gordon's qualification from last year but thought it was a bit amusing that there was all this discussion about whether he would have qualified under the new rules when he was completely unaware he had qualified under the old ones. Anyway thanks for that clarification on the possibility of deferring his place till next year David, I'll certainly let Gordon know.David Sedgwick wrote:Your post can only be based on a further misunderstanding.Chris Rice wrote:I've just heard from Gordon Botley, who I pointed this thread out to and he told me that this is the first he had heard that he qualified for the British and as its so late on he is not certain if he can play. I thought up to now it was routine for the tournament organisers to ask the player whether he wanted to play so that they could give the place to someone else if he didn't want to? Perhaps the Thanet organisers can follow up? If Gordon doesn't want to play there are six players who got 3/5 who appear to meet the criteria and who may jump at the chance.
This thread is about the Thanet Chess Congress due to take place in August 2017.
Whatever Gordon Botley may have done, it won't include having qualified for the British Championship from an event which has not yet taken place.
Edit: I have now seen that from the list at http://www.britishchesschampionships.co ... iers-2017/ that Gordon Botley has qualified for the British Championship 2017 from the Thanet Congress 2016.
He has the right to defer the place until 2018 if he wishes.
However, contrary to your suggestion, the place would not be transferable to a player on a lower score group.
Incidentally, if he doesn't want to play at all why is the next score group down on 3/5 ineligible? I thought you could cascade down under the old rules to players who had scored at least 60%?
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
I don't think that has been the official case for a number of years, if ever. Such was the explosion of qualification routes to the British Championship, that such a concession shouldn't be needed. The nearest thing to that might have been wording to the effect that a qualifying place would be awarded to the Champion or nominee of a Union or Federation.Chris Rice wrote: I thought you could cascade down under the old rules to players who had scored at least 60%?
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
Further confusion, I'm afraid. The 60% provision relates to something a bit different.Chris Rice wrote:Incidentally, if he doesn't want to play at all why is the next score group down on 3/5 ineligible? I thought you could cascade down under the old rules to players who had scored at least 60%?
Under the old rules, if there was a tie on 60% or above for a qualifying place, all the eligible players in the tie qualified.
If there was a tie on less than 60%, the tie had to be split, although the place could be transferred within the score group if the first choice (or second choice, etc) did not wish to take up the place or defer it.
In neither case could the place be transferred to players on a lower score group.
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
I think this is the crucial point. The fact is that the winner of the Thanet Congress will qualify for the 2018 British Championship one way or another unless the title of SCCU Champion cannot be awarded to a player outside the area. This I don't know and perhaps David or Michael can clarify this. If this is the case and the title cannot be 'cascaded down', then it is possible that a player from outside the SCCU otherwise unqualified for the BC could win the Thanet Open, not be awarded the title of SCCU Champion and therefore not qualify. However, this is a little unfair on Thanet and I have reinstated the 'British Championship qualifier' tag to the website as this has been agreed in good faith. As for Gordon Botley qualifying last year under the old rules, I am surprised he was not informed, especially as Thanet has been a BC qualifier for years and I wonder how players have been told in the past. However, the point is noted and I can assure everyone that this year's qualifier will be informed - once we can agree who it is!Alan Merry probably doesn't qualify for the SCCU title by virtue of being EACU, Martin Taylor certainly does and would be Kent Champion as well. He would be qualified already for the British by virtue of being an FM with a sufficiently high rating. So would the player finishing third gain a qualification place?
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
If the qualifying place is awarded to the SCCU champion then it seems obviously the case that the place goes to the SCCU champion and not the tournament winner. And the SCCU champion is limited to eligible players. It also seems logically the case that if the SCCU champion is already qualified then the place can't be passed on to somebody who is not the SCCU champion.Robert Page wrote:I think this is the crucial point. The fact is that the winner of the Thanet Congress will qualify for the 2018 British Championship one way or another unless the title of SCCU Champion cannot be awarded to a player outside the area. This I don't know and perhaps David or Michael can clarify this. If this is the case and the title cannot be 'cascaded down', then it is possible that a player from outside the SCCU otherwise unqualified for the BC could win the Thanet Open, not be awarded the title of SCCU Champion and therefore not qualify. However, this is a little unfair on Thanet and I have reinstated the 'British Championship qualifier' tag to the website as this has been agreed in good faith. As for Gordon Botley qualifying last year under the old rules, I am surprised he was not informed, especially as Thanet has been a BC qualifier for years and I wonder how players have been told in the past. However, the point is noted and I can assure everyone that this year's qualifier will be informed - once we can agree who it is!Alan Merry probably doesn't qualify for the SCCU title by virtue of being EACU, Martin Taylor certainly does and would be Kent Champion as well. He would be qualified already for the British by virtue of being an FM with a sufficiently high rating. So would the player finishing third gain a qualification place?
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
Robert Page wrote: I think this is the crucial point. The fact is that the winner of the Thanet Congress will qualify for the 2018 British Championship one way or another unless the title of SCCU Champion cannot be awarded to a player outside the area. This I don't know and perhaps David or Michael can clarify this. If this is the case and the title cannot be 'cascaded down', then it is possible that a player from outside the SCCU otherwise unqualified for the BC could win the Thanet Open, not be awarded the title of SCCU Champion and therefore not qualify. However, this is a little unfair on Thanet and I have reinstated the 'British Championship qualifier' tag to the website as this has been agreed in good faith. As for Gordon Botley qualifying last year under the old rules, I am surprised he was not informed, especially as Thanet has been a BC qualifier for years and I wonder how players have been told in the past. However, the point is noted and I can assure everyone that this year's qualifier will be informed - once we can agree who it is!
With regard to the SCCU Individual Championship, which is restricted to SCCU players, the winner is awarded the Glenroy Cup which is held for one year, a prize of £100 and a place in the following British Championships.
The 2016-17 SCCU Championship was awarded to the Weald Congress and will be held 15th-16th July 2017: http://wealdchesscongress.org/
It is the 2017-18 SCCU Championship which is to be held at Thanet.
As Richard Bates (2016 SCCU Champion) has already pointed out, by a quirk in the timings of the Weald and Thanet Congresses the 2017 SCCU Champion cannot expect to have the trophy in their physical possession for the full twelve months.
To avoid the possible embarrassment of incorrectly awarding a BC to a player not entitled to it, it would be best to seek clarification from the Director of Home Chess who wrote the 2018 British Championship Qualification Rules.
A further point to note is that the SCCU do not specify a tiebreak so that the championship can be shared between any number of winners. I presume in that case additional BC places would have to be awarded.
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
Just over two and a half weeks to go to the 48th Thanet Chess Congress. Free entry for GMs and IMs, only £5 entry for U15s, over £2300 in prize money, five sections, Kent Individual Championships and SCCU Championship at stake. For more details, entry form and online entry, go to the congress website http://www.thanetchesscongress.co.uk and if you are more interested in knowing what you'll be eating that weekend, try the Broadstairs site: http://www.broadstairschessclub.co.uk.
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Re: Thanet Chess Congress 2017
There is no bookstall at the Thanet Congress this weekend but we are planning to have a second hand bookstall where players can donate any of their unwanted chess books with the proceeds going to charity. There will be no prices on the books and browsers will be invited to make a suitable donation. All money raised will go to the Pilgrims Hospice in Margate. If you are coming along, do please dig out a book or two that you no longer need and bring it with you. Any donations will be gratefully received. If you have not entered the congress yet, there is still time: http://www.thanetchesscongress.co.uk