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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Peter D Williams wrote:
The police and the CPS quite rightly take any hint of racism very seriously and an investigation will begin that will involve everyone that was involved in the trip and anyone else who had communications with the participants during this time.



Is this a matter for the British police? Since it all happened abroad, it's not clear to me that it's within their jurisditction. I'm no legal expert, but perhaps it's best we don't get carried away with ourselves here.

I agree with your fundamental point, however, that a full and transparent inquiry is essential (regardless of the outcome).


Hi Jonathan

I don't feel I am getting carried away, I am just trying to stress how this could snowball. I too am not a legal expert but I think that as those named are British citizens the British police could take this up if a complaint was made. Also I guess the Austrian police could launch their own investigation.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Peter D Williams wrote:
I don't feel I am getting carried away....


Well let's agree to disagree on what constitutes getting carried away then.

Going back to your point earlier about the ECF's history of full and frank disclosure, I think this current case highlights exactly why a proven record of 'open government' is a good thing even if you perceive the issue to be trivial. Whatever it is the ECF ends up saying about the junior tournament business it's important that it's trusted as a full and frank account.

That said, and having had my own history of raising an eyebrow or two at the absence of ECF comment on various matters, I think they deserve credit for their response today. It's exactly what one would hope for in the circumstances.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:51 pm 
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I know nothing about the squabble at this event, but have had the pleasure of playing Stephen Whatley at an e2e4congress - Stephen and his parents were extremely polite both prior to our game and afterwards, in fact they were the friendliest people that I spoke to that weekend, so I do find the accusations extremely hard to take seriously.

Indeed, if there is a genuine cause for concern, randomly inviting people, who have no way of knowing the facts, to blindly email the ECF in support, at best smacks of desperation and at worst gives the impression that playing the 'race' card is enough to win any argument.

Chess is a beautiful game and Britain is not only Great but on the whole a beautiful and tolerant country - long may it remain so


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:45 pm 
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This could `snowball` if we keep talking about it without anything remotely resembling the full facts. The allegation has been made, it must be investigated and that's not very easily done until the tournament is over and the people concerned return to this country. If there's one thing T-shirtgate should have taught us it's not to jump to conclusions and to keep things as quiet as possible. More to the point, as young players are concerned and the allegations (in the main) do not concern them personally a certain amount of confidentiality is surely called for.

Carl - I'd like to suggest you lock this thread and also censor names (granted they are available elsewhere but perhaps we should set the standard). Once the matter has been properly investigated then perhaps people can have their pound of flesh but not before.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:50 pm 
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OK, so perhaps best not to speculate.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:48 am 
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Any citizen can make a complaint to the police if he/she believes they had seen or heard racist remarks/ or racist actions and the police are duty bound to fully investigate the complaint.Indeed the police encourage members of the public to come forward if they see/hear racism.The police and the CPS do not see racism as a squabble or a misunderstanding.I really hope the article is not true but it is very worrying for junior chess to be linked to a story like this.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:03 am 
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Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Carl - I'd like to suggest you lock this thread and also censor names (granted they are available elsewhere but perhaps we should set the standard). Once the matter has been properly investigated then perhaps people can have their pound of flesh but not before.

I am in agreement with Andrew that we should perhaps not discuss the issue until it has been investigated fully

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:52 pm 
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I have checked with Carl before making this post

The following is a extract from a Press Release on IHRC’s website

“The Islamic Human Rights Commission will be launching a campaign to see that those responsible for Islamophobia are brought to justice and those that are responsible for dereliction of duty are held responsible.

Chair of IHRC, Massoud Shadjareh, said, “This is a shocking case of racism and Islamophobia and one that should not go unnoticed, the children are so young and should not be subjected to such hate.”

“Notes to editors
1 For all interview request phone 020 8904 4222 or email media@ihrc.org
2 IHRC will be handling all interviews with the family.”

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:04 pm 
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http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/dougl ... im-police/


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 am 
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I have read the story on Indymedia. It clearly calls for an investigation and I expect the ECF to carry this out and issue a public report. Until then we should avoid speculation.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:30 am 
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Hi Peter D.W

"I don’t think a “no story here” is the right statement to make."

I'm coming in from the angle that the ECF will investiagte and find there
has been one alimighty misunderstanding and there was no malice intended.

Ignorance is not a valid defence but if someone was completly unaware that
their actions have caused an offence and was not intended then this matter
can be and should be resovled in an amicable way.

As Mohammed Amin correctly said we should avoid specualtion but I am specualting
and expecting that this is the case here and there is no story that the media may be interested in.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:52 am 
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MohammedAmin wrote:
I have read the story on Indymedia. It clearly calls for an investigation and I expect the ECF to carry this out and issue a public report. Until then we should avoid speculation.

I am locking this topic off until a public report is available

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:59 am 
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Peter D Williams wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:
Peter

Have you read the comment from Jack on the indy media blog? I'm not sure it could be any clearer


Hi Mick

Yes I have, but is this an official statement as it differs from the one on the ECF website? Also not everyone will view the comments posted just the story and that is what will stick in their minds. It really is crucial that the ECF act immediately and establish the facts whatever they are and lets all be honest they don't have a good track record of this. If there is no substance in the allegations (and I sincerely hope there isn't) then this needs to be out in the public domain sooner rather than later - if the ECF are slow or if the family have already made a complaint to the police then it will be taken out of their hands.


Peter

Mud sticks, of course, and I doubt that the outcome of the ECF investigation will be publicised as much as the original allegations, just like I doubt that people willing to immediately think the worst of the ECF will learn anything from their overreaction to the initial story

When you investigate this kind of allegation, you get 2 kinds of criticism - either you haven't acted fast enough, or you haven't taken time to investigate thoroughly

I expect that Phil Ehr dealt with this properly, as I would expect, but I think the chess community asks too much of the ECF volunteers

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