The John Robinson Grand Prix

[Matthew Turner]

So far we have had three events (the British, London Junior Champs, Yateley Manor) and the latest results have just been posted on the ECF website. I have not been to any of these events this year, but I wondered if anybody had any comments about how the Grand Prix was going. Only results over 50% are included in the table, but two things struck me

1. There are only 15 results from Yateley (no U14's) was the entry down?
2. There is only one girl who has registered a score (in one event) in the U16's and there are not too many girls in general.

I am going to the next event, the West of England Champs, in Swindon. That is always brilliantly organised, but I notice that some juniors will not be playing because it clashes with Uxbridge and a Squad trip to Poland.

[LozCooper]

I attended my first ever event over last weekend in Wolverhampton. The turn out seemed reasonable albeit there were noticeably some strong players who weren't there. Amongst the feedback from parents that I heard was that it was a shame that there wasn't coaching available between rounds and in the evening. I don't know how this compares to the other events. Any thoughts?

[J T Melsom]

I would be interested to understand the type of parents asking for coaching. Was it for instance because they are not able to access coaching at other times of the year, or because their children have an apparently insatiable appetite? Some of this might reflect pushy parents, rather than the genuine wishes of the child. I would have thought that for many players at a weekend event with a tight playing schedule it was just as important to relax between rounds, and kick a football around or something.

[LozCooper]

They were certainly not pushy parents but I think the concensus was that it would have been nice to have a strong player available to look at some of the post mortems even if it were only for five or ten minutes. It is true though that cost is a factor in far fewer children getting coaching than I would like.

[Paul Sanders]

2. There is only one girl who has registered a score (in one event) in the U16's and there are not too many girls in general.

For comparison the French Youth Championship is happening now in Troyes. It's a FIDE rated 9-rounder, and wraps up on Sunday. Girls are very well represented, with between 60 and 80ish playing in each of their own sections in the lower age groups. 1222 players are competing in all, and it doubles as selection for internationals.

Follow the action here: http://www.echecs.asso.fr/Default.aspx?Cat=16

[Richard James]

2. There is only one girl who has registered a score (in one event) in the U16's and there are not too many girls in general.

For comparison the French Youth Championship is happening now in Troyes. It's a FIDE rated 9-rounder, and wraps up on Sunday. Girls are very well represented, with between 60 and 80ish playing in each of their own sections in the lower age groups. 1222 players are competing in all, and it doubles as selection for internationals.

Follow the action here: http://www.echecs.asso.fr/Default.aspx?Cat=16

This confirms my belief that we are a very long way behind the rest of Western Europe when it comes to junior chess.

Back in the 1970s, in the days of the English Chess Explosion, we led the world, but since then the rest of the world has moved on, while we have made no progress. In fact, in many ways we have regressed.

We really need to reconsider everything, from the way we introduce chess to young children right the way through to the facilities available for our most promising players. Just doing more of the same will have little or no effect.

[Alex Holowczak]

The biggest problem chess has in England (if not Britain) is that it is perceived as nerdy, dull, difficult to learn, time consuming... None of these things are going to attract people (let alone young people) to play the game. We can have all the variety of events we like, we can have World Class facilities for our top junior events, but it won't pull new people in (or indeed, keep them from dropping out).

Are the top juniors benefiting from traipsing all over the country to play a series of events against other juniors? I'm not sure they are.

The focus needs to be on challenging the chess-player stereotype. Otherwise, chess will continue to get less and less popular, and fewer and fewer will take it up.

[Richard James]

The biggest problem chess has in England (if not Britain) is that it is perceived as nerdy, dull, difficult to learn, time consuming...

It's one problem, but not the only one. But, paradoxically, we are also presenting chess as something that's suitable for very young children to play competitively, and therefore easy to learn. And this is in itself a major problem. Of course it's fairly easy to learn how to play chess but extremely difficult to learn how to play well. One of my major issues with junior chess is that I really don't think - for several reasons - that it's a good idea to put young children who barely know how the pieces move into chess tournaments and pretend to them, their parents and their teachers that they are real chess players. We would be much better off using chess as a teaching tool for younger children while encouraging young people of secondary school age to take up competitive chess. Those who start competitive chess in their teens (such as yourself, Alex) are far more likely to develop a lifelong interest in chess than those who start competitive chess at 7 or 8.

[Richard James]

Are the top juniors benefiting from traipsing all over the country to play a series of events against other juniors? I'm not sure they are.

I'm not sure they are either. I have issues with the junior selection procedures from U11 upwards, and this is one of them. In my experience ambitious juniors gain far more from playing in open age competitions. This is one reason why I suggested on another thread that perhaps there are too many junior tournaments.

[Paul Sanders]

One of the striking things about my first experience of Cappelle La Grande this year was seeing eight year old girls and boys, and some younger, playing perfectly happily in an Open, with GMs on the top boards. It did not seem to bother them or their parents, or the organisers. A combination of FIDE ratings, and therefore fairly reliable TPRs, and single section tournaments, seems to be a very natural way to progress. And you see a lot of friendly intergenerational help and advice being given too.

[Neill Cooper]

Those who start competitive chess in their teens (such as yourself, Alex) are far more likely to develop a lifelong interest in chess than those who start competitive chess at 7 or 8.

As someone who took chess up at 14 I wholeheartedly agree with you. I also notice that the most enthusiastic players at school are those who take it up after their GCSEs! It is in early teenage years that young people decide for themselves what they want to do. It is not just in chess that those who played at primary school fall into three categories - those who give up (the majority), those who keep playing and those who get enthusiastic about playing. Since it is only those who are enthusiastic who keep playing into adulthood, this means that only a small fraction of those who played at primary school keep playing chess in adult life, whilst those who take it up when they are teenagers are much more likely to do so.

[Richard James]

It is in early teenage years that young people decide for themselves what they want to do.

Quite so. Younger kids, to a large extent, do what their parents want them to do. Teenagers do what they want to do. Also, younger kids tend to get obsessed about something, dinosaurs, Pokémon, chess or whatever, for a few months and then move onto something else. There are so many reasons why we should be encouraging mass participation in competitive chess at secondary school age, not at primary school age.

Of course, we need to identify and provide for talented younger players as well. If we want to promote chess at primary schools it should, in my opinion, be done as a learning tool within the classroom, not through after-school chess clubs. Then, those children who show particular promise or interest would be encouraged to move onto a junior chess club such as Richmond or Checkmates.

[Alex Holowczak]

Checkmates is not the bastion it once was.

When I joined in 2004ish, there were 40+ members. Now there are 10. Most of the best players have "defected" to Solihull Checkmates, which not only has other strong players from Warwickshire, but also has Nick Thomas who pops along to coach them. Birmingham Checkmates has no real coach.

[Leonard Barden]

Are the top juniors benefiting from traipsing all over the country to play a series of events against other juniors? I'm not sure they are.

I'm not sure they are either. I have issues with the junior selection procedures from U11 upwards, and this is one of them. In my experience ambitious juniors gain far more from playing in open age competitions. This is one reason why I suggested on another thread that perhaps there are too many junior tournaments.

The junior Grand Prix in its current dumbed down format is a positive disincentive for juniors to seek strong competition.

Under the old rules the prizes were graduated down from under-20 to under-10, and at least two of the five qualifying tournaments had to be "Elite' , that is very strong events or opens with high prize money.

This meant that virtually all the top juniors took part, and younger juniors were stimulated to be more ambitious. It was provenly successful over many years and many future GMs and IMs developed their skills on the Grand Prix circuit.

The current format-only five weak competitions count, players must compete in their own age groups-is a direct incentive to mediocrity.

This is far from the only reason that junior standards have dropped in the last decade, but it is one factor and unlike most of the others it could be changed if there was a political will within the ECF or the John Robinson trustees to do so.

[John Upham]

Leonard,

Would you be prepared to become a John Robinson Trustee?

I would very much welcome this.