Telegraph report about Austria

[Paul McKeown]

By the way, Paul, you posted a game against him here a little earlier. I grabbed it for the archives (http://www.irlchess.com/games_archive/s ... d-1986.htm) but now it seems to have disappeared here? It wasn't bad for a blindfold game.

Sean, sorry, I deleted it as I just thought the game was a bit irrelevant to this thread, even more so than discussion of CB. Tbh, I was also a bit repulsed by the game, it's quite naive. For instance, I'm not sure that the bishop belongs on f4, and I certainly wouldn't be so ready to allow my bishop to get exchanged for a knight. Easily explained, of course. My ECF grade these days is in the 190's, back then I didn't have an ECF grade, but it would have been 145/150ish, if I had had one. Anyway, for the fans, my earliest surviving blindfold game, played in a Dublin boozer:

[Event "Blindfold Game"][Site "Dublin"][Date "1986.07.06"][White "McKeown, Paul"][Black "Bracken, Conor"][Result "1-0"][ECO "C10"][PlyCount "41"]1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Bf4 Ngf6 6. Ng3 Be7 7. Nf3 O-O 8. Bd3 Nd5 9. Qd2 Nxf4 10. Qxf4 Nf6 11. O-O-O Bd7 12. Rhe1 Bc6 13. Ne5 Bxg2 14. Rg1 Bd5 15. c4 Bc6 16. Bc2 Nd7?? 17. Nh5 g6 18. Qh6 Bf6 19. Nxg6 fxg6 20. Bxg6 hxg6 21. Qxg6+ 1-0

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Aren't the police legally/procedurally required to give any alleged offence reported to them an incident number, and perhaps a named assigned officer? Then they make some kind of initial assessment, and perhaps some enquiries, before they assess whether a 'full' investigation (tracking down any/all witnesses to alleged offence) is warranted...?"

Yes. I reported something to the police some time ago, and they immediately gave me a "crime number" and contact details of a named officer, who turned out to be helpful. And they sorted out the problem as well.

The thing about an attack being "racist", if so perceived by the recipient, is variable.

I am told that the main complainant in the Austrian problem wasn't even there and is only acting as spokesman. The "accused" are quite right to remain silent until police/CPS either do something or decide not to. Doubtless they want to say something.

I was amused to be called "pious". It is normal policy for teachers not to drink alcohol in the presence of children - that is a fact. Complain to the educational authorities if you don't like it.

[Peter D Williams]

Moreover, while this stuff is of course diverting, I'd be more interested in knowing why it is that our juniors have performed so abysmally in these events. I can't say I've paid much attention to our results in them since about thirty years ago, but at that time one was not expected to return with scores like 3/10, and if one did Leonard would no doubt have wanted to know the reason why. I know the former Soviet states take part individually now, which obviously has thickened up the top of the table a bit, but still. Or is this sort of thing the norm these days? Certainly I don't see many juniors around the UK scene who seem to me to have much ability.

I take issue with you saying "I don't see many juniors around the UK scene who seem to me to have much ability" Yang Fan Zhou is an IM James Holland has IM norm those 2 would give you a real good game. I think my money would be on James and Yang Fan to beat you! Ravi Haria is showing real rapid improvement .Our juniors get far less coaching than those from other countries maybe you could offer to help some of our juniors in some way with the chess?

[LawrenceCooper]

Moreover, while this stuff is of course diverting, I'd be more interested in knowing why it is that our juniors have performed so abysmally in these events. I can't say I've paid much attention to our results in them since about thirty years ago, but at that time one was not expected to return with scores like 3/10, and if one did Leonard would no doubt have wanted to know the reason why. I know the former Soviet states take part individually now, which obviously has thickened up the top of the table a bit, but still. Or is this sort of thing the norm these days? Certainly I don't see many juniors around the UK scene who seem to me to have much ability.

I take issue with you saying "I don't see many juniors around the UK scene who seem to me to have much ability" Yang Fan Zhou is an IM James Holland has IM norm those 2 would give you a real good game. I think my money would be on James and Yang Fan to beat you! Ravi Haria is showing real rapid improvement .Our juniors get far less coaching than those from other countries maybe you could offer to help some of our juniors in some way with the chess?

I hope that John's comments weren't meant to be taken seriously, especially as his own 4NCL team Barbican has a number of talented juniors on their books. Yang-Fan and Ravi were close to a medal at the 2011 World Youth and Anna Wang was also in contention when she was last able to play.

[Jonathan Rogers]

I am not saying that I agree with John, but he did say that he didn't see "many" - he did not say that he didn't see "any". The difference is that if you don't have "many" then there is always the chance of relatively low scores in competitions where you are not fielding the likes of Yang-Fan, which seems to be what he is getting at with the 3/10 point. And to meet the financial argument, there was also very little money in English chess 20-30 years ago when we did have a number of U-21 IMs in this country.

In case people still have the wrong impression, I add that John has offered to act as a mentor to one of one of our youth players.

On another note, I like Sam Franklin's position v Sadzikowski (2450) on the live boards in Prague.

[Peter D Williams]

I am not saying that I agree with John, but he did say that he didn't see "many" - he did not say that he didn't see "any". The difference is that if you don't have "many" then there is always the chance of relatively low scores in competitions where you are not fielding the likes of Yang-Fan, which seems to be what he is getting at with the 3/10 point. And to meet the financial argument, there was also very little money in English chess 20-30 years ago when we did have a number of U-21 IMs in this country.

In case people still have the wrong impression, I add that John has offered to act as a mentor to one of one of our youth players.

On another note, I like Sam Franklin's position v Sadzikowski (2450) on the live boards in Athens.

I would say we got many junior players who have real talent and who are still improving Sam Franklin's anther fine player i remember him drawing with a grandmaster at Guernsey 2 years ago did speak to Sam at airport and he a really nice lad so happy he was with his result. I could name at least 12 junior players who would give John a really good game and my money would be on them beating him! Other juniors are close to a breakthrough as well! and remember for some junior players due to perhaps lack of finance they have to miss chess events or go to far fewer this can slow down improvement.
I get the impression from some people that there do not support our juniors and just wish to criticize them.
At least one thing not changed in 20 30 years not much money around for chess for juniors or Adults
Glad to hear John has offered to act as a mentor to a youth player maybe more strong chess players could do this!

[Jonathan Rogers]

...
Glad to hear John has offered to act as a mentor to a youth player maybe more strong chess players could do this!

Certainly so. We have asked a number of our first team players to act as mentors to younger players for the coming seasons and I have been delighted by the positive responses.

Sam's opponent has scraped a draw. The game was very interesting and indeed eye opening for those who would simply assume that one cannot leave one's king prone indefinitely to a range of discovered checks from queen and knight!

[John Cox]

>I could name at least 12 junior players who would give John a really good game and my money would be on them beating him!

Really? Yang-Fan I'll give you, since quite apart from being considerably higher-rated than me he did beat me in the 4NCL rapidplay two years ago, albeit from a lost position. I can't to be honest think of too many others I'd make favourite, though perhaps Sam Franklin is younger than I think.

But really, what is your point? I'm a useless 50-year old amateur ranked something like number 50 in the country. Any serious junior over the age of about 14 should be able to 'give me a really good game', to put it mildly.

I'm sure we have a few good young players, but when I was a junior we had at least 15 juniors at any one time who could give GMs a good game and have some chance of winning, and that was when there were only 100 GMs in the world. Something's gone wrong since then. And, as Jonathan points out, we had no coaching whatsoever; I've never had a formal chess lesson in my life and nor did most of my generation, though I seem to recall that if you were brave enough you could show Andrew Martin and Jim Plaskett your games after some of those events in the Mary Ward Centre and see what pearls of wisdom you could garner amidst the friendly abuse.

[Andy Howie]

Thinking about what John is saying. The world number one has a coach who is graded below him. I know quite a few lower graded coaches who coach way above their grade successfully

[Peter D Williams]

>I could name at least 12 junior players who would give John a really good game and my money would be on them beating him!

Really? Yang-Fan I'll give you, since quite apart from being considerably higher-rated than me he did beat me in the 4NCL rapidplay two years ago, albeit from a lost position. I can't to be honest think of too many others I'd make favourite, though perhaps Sam Franklin is younger than I think.

But really, what is your point? I'm a useless 50-year old amateur ranked something like number 50 in the country. Any serious junior over the age of about 14 should be able to 'give me a really good game', to put it mildly.

I'm sure we have a few good young players, but when I was a junior we had at least 15 juniors at any one time who could give GMs a good game and have some chance of winning, and that was when there were only 100 GMs in the world. Something's gone wrong since then. And, as Jonathan points out, we had no coaching whatsoever; I've never had a formal chess lesson in my life and nor did most of my generation, though I seem to recall that if you were brave enough you could show Andrew Martin and Jim Plaskett your games after some of those events in the Mary Ward Centre and see what pearls of wisdom you could garner amidst the friendly abuse.

You do not really see yourself as useless 50-year old amateur? is that what you tell the youth you mentor? Ravi would give you a good game to I believe he is 14 and James Holland he got IM norm Almost every chess player i met says we had no coaching whatsoever; I've never had a formal chess lesson in my life and nor did most of my generation,or read chess books! or play online wonder how all these sites keep going with no one playing chess or how the chess books keep on selling. I seem to remember you looking at a chess book at Uxbridge?

50th in the UK is a good achievement in my view and juniors can use this as a yardstick before moving on to bigger fish!

I bought the book you wrote and very good it is to very helpful I enjoyed reading it.

[Geoff Chandler]

Any junior playing chess is good. It's brilliant.
I'm not too fond of the pressure the kids get put under to win, win, win.
It should be enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

This need to breed champions can have the adverse effect.
How about just giving them the chance to play as often as they can without
any of this must win pressure so they can shrug off their losses, laugh at their
blunders and feel pleased with their wins.

We need this generation to one day replace the older generation and keep chess going.
The future club secs, treasurers...the board six player who plays
soley for the enjoyment of the game. The love of the game.

I'd rather encourage 20 juniors who will peak at the average club player level
than one super-duper player who will peak so high he no longer feels
the need to support any chess club.

So let us not cherry pick juniors for encouragement, let us encourage them all.
Eventually talent will out, it cannot be forced out.

[Peter D Williams]

[quote="Geoff Chandler"]Any junior playing chess is good. It's brilliant.
I'm not too fond of the pressure the kids get put under to win, win, win.
It should be enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

This need to breed champions can have the adverse effect.
How about just giving them the chance to play as often as they can without
any of this must win pressure so they can shrug off their losses, laugh at their
blunders and feel pleased with their wins.

We need this generation to one day replace the older generation and keep chess going.
The future club secs, treasurers...the board six player who plays
soley for the enjoyment of the game. The love of the game.

I'd rather encourage 20 juniors who will peak at the average club player level
than one super-duper player who will peak so high he no longer feels
the need to support any chess club.

So let us not cherry pick juniors for encouragement, let us encourage them all.
Eventually talent will out, it cannot be forced out.[/quot

Children can only play as much as finance time will allow. i would guess this stop a lot of children from playing due to lack of resources or what if a child can not get to a local chess club or no chess club is near them? Very little effort is put into producing a super-duper player as the funds are just not there to do this.
I doubt very much we will get the players to replace the older generation to many other far more interesting things come into peoples life.

Who wants to force talent out or breed champions? i know of no one who would do this do you?
what is needed where possible is to encourage all players to keep playing what ever there standard.But so many kids do give up. I wonder why?

[Richard Bates]

50th in the UK is a good achievement in my view and juniors can use this as a yardstick before moving on to bigger fish!

It's quite easy to get comfortable at 50th in the country. There's a bit of a club atmosphere about the place. And it sounds a bit better than than describing ourselves as weak IMs (which is what we really are). And we can get away with it in the real world! BTW IMO "useless and amateur" should never be put together. The correct connection of words is "strong" and "amateur". Doesn't invalidate the fact that we're useless though...

[Roger de Coverly]

I don't know if anything should be read into it, but the parallel thread on the Streatham blog attracting something like 25 comments is now suspended.

http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... ia_12.html

[Peter Sowray]

I don't know if anything should be read into it, but the parallel thread on the Streatham blog attracting something like 25 comments is now suspended.

http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... ia_12.html

Very suspicious indeed.

I always thought that these S&B bloggers were trying to hide something.

Gizza timeline ...