Children at the chess club who need basic lessons

[David Blower]

Recently at our club we had some children join who really need some basic lessons, as basic as the fact that for example the bishop would usually have two different diagionals it can move on. (I.E. they know the Bishop moves diagionally but are often only focusing on one diagional.) The first week they joined I was playing one of them, and had to make several blunders to keep the game competitive.

Eventually we did some basic lessons, but how to do such basic lessons so they understand, but not disturbing other players who are experienced chess players and know all of this etc. Often there is a league match, so on the other side of the room there might be 5 or 6 ECF graded matches going on at the same time. The lesson has started off as whispering, but then the noise level has gradually increased and before long it becomes talking!

Before its suggested, we don't want to chuck them out of the club, and infact wouldn't dream of it. We're not a junior only chess club, but we have made it clear we accept children, and accept all chess players regardless of ability level.

[Roger de Coverly]

Before its suggested, we don't want to chuck them out of the club, and infact wouldn't dream of it. We're not a junior only chess club, but we have made it clear we accept children, and accept all chess players regardless of ability level.

You need to find a way to have a "talking area" and a quiet area for serious play. For clubs with adults and premises with a friendly bar, it's easy enough to suggest that those wishing to discuss their games or just analyse in general should retire to the bar. If you are trying to hold even informal training sessions for non-adults, a separate room may be necessary.

[David Blower]

The separate room would be the kitchen, as we are in a church hall and not in a pub. This is related to this topic I posted: http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5927

[Ian Kingston]

One solution is to set aside an hour before the main playing session so that younger players can be taught without disturbing league matches etc. It won't work for every club, but if you have two or three adults willing to help out (which might include parents) it can be very successful. The idea has worked well at West Nottingham CC over the past few years.

[Colin S Crouch]

A club without a junior section is liable to be in danger of failing, sooner or later. Look around the various clubs, and quite often it is a case of a club being played in a WMC or a pub, with one team match being played, but few other members, if any, turning out in any friendly games. Quite often, it is just one organiser who keeps the club going, often with a lot of hard work but without much recgnition And mothers of young juniors tend to be highly reluctant to go there each week in such a venue.
A good church hall is usually a good place to start off, or expand, a junior section in a club. As Ian Kingston has noted, it is a good idea to set up a junior section, starting around 6.00. At Harrow, the junior section finishes at 7.15, and then the main section, including league matches, start at 7.30. We encourage the more experienced juniors to carry on after 7.30, and there are now two five-board teams, with the first teams playing in the Hillingdon League having an average grade of about 120, and an average age of just under 13. Our second team is not far behind.
Of course, a big junior chess club cannot be done instanty. In the first year or so, maybe even longer, there may well be two, three or four juniors turning up, but eventually word of mouth will have its impact, and so long as club organisers do not give up on the idea, an expanding junior club will create he buzz that the club as a whole is on the up. When I started to rejoin Harrow Chess Club, after a long gap (It's a complicated story), it was a sign of celebration that just occasionally there might be forty players turning up on a club night. Now there will usually be more than fifty players turning up – I do not even bother these days counting the numbers.
One small point. We do not kick out the parents, once the children have been taken to the club. Families are welcome, but equally paarents can catch up with the shopping.
I am hoping this is of interst to readers. The basic point is that if you are in a mainstream, adult-orientated club and a parent wants a child or maybe a couple of children, to learn chess from the club, then give them every opportunity.

[Martin Crichton]

Hi Colin
has something changed from the Pinner model? The old Pinner chess club model had junior chess from 6pm to 7:30pm and adult chess after 7:30pm

It is not practical or fair on either the adults or juniors/novices/beginners to have them playing in the same room at the same time.

I always thought the Pinner model was a very good one.

[Martin Crichton]

Slightly off topic but I played at a predominently junior orientated rapidplay event on Saturday where all but 3 of the entrants were juniors. I ended up playing 4 juniors - 2 of them were very promising and indeed one of the two trounced the IM that had entered in one of the rounds. The remaining 2 - one was a girl but needs to increase her concentration at the board and the last one was a really bad apple.

no names of course - the particular kid in question - (11 years old) had a really bad attitude at the board.
Firstly he stuck his hand out as a gesture at a hand shake made no effort to shake hands. Then showed no respect and asked me how to spell my name....it then went from bad to worse...half way through the game the kid interupted me twice when it was my move to inform me he was going out to "get some water" (with the inference that I should wait until he returned before I should make my move) I replied ...do what you like. Then a little later I must not have pushed my clock hard enough as my time was still running while it was his move...I noticed the kid was sneaking his gaze elsewhere and checked my clock ...then pushed it again. Small compensation that I mated him nicely in the end.

It has been some time since I have come across such a bad apple in junior chess. If his coach is reading this I hope he/she tries to teach the kid some chess etiquette or alternatively suggest to his/her young charge that he seeks an alternative interest or pastime.

[Steve Rooney]

A club without a junior section is liable to be in danger of failing, sooner or later. Look around the various clubs, and quite often it is a case of a club being played in a WMC or a pub, with one team match being played, but few other members, if any, turning out in any friendly games. Quite often, it is just one organiser who keeps the club going, often with a lot of hard work but without much recgnition And mothers of young juniors tend to be highly reluctant to go there each week in such a venue.
A good church hall is usually a good place to start off, or expand, a junior section in a club. As Ian Kingston has noted, it is a good idea to set up a junior section, starting around 6.00. At Harrow, the junior section finishes at 7.15, and then the main section, including league matches, start at 7.30. We encourage the more experienced juniors to carry on after 7.30, and there are now two five-board teams, with the first teams playing in the Hillingdon League having an average grade of about 120, and an average age of just under 13. Our second team is not far behind.
Of course, a big junior chess club cannot be done instanty. In the first year or so, maybe even longer, there may well be two, three or four juniors turning up, but eventually word of mouth will have its impact, and so long as club organisers do not give up on the idea, an expanding junior club will create he buzz that the club as a whole is on the up. When I started to rejoin Harrow Chess Club, after a long gap (It's a complicated story), it was a sign of celebration that just occasionally there might be forty players turning up on a club night. Now there will usually be more than fifty players turning up – I do not even bother these days counting the numbers.
One small point. We do not kick out the parents, once the children have been taken to the club. Families are welcome, but equally paarents can catch up with the shopping.
I am hoping this is of interst to readers. The basic point is that if you are in a mainstream, adult-orientated club and a parent wants a child or maybe a couple of children, to learn chess from the club, then give them every opportunity.

It's great to hear about the thriving junior club at Harrow. I can remember Colin helping many of us younger juniors at Harrow back in the 70s. Unfortunately I don't think I absorbed enough of his lessons, unlike some of my cohort who became much stronger. But the experience did at least encourage a love of chess which has stayed with me forever and that is probably the first goal of any coaching environment.

We had a pre-club junior section at Shrewsbury for a number of years which was very successful and from it we developed a junior team which then played league chess. As a small town and county, numbers are a perennial issue though and in recent seasons it has lost the critical mass to maintain a regular junior club, but hopefully it may return at some point.

I agree wholeheartedly about the need to encourage children into chess clubs and a junior section can help to get them started. But as soon as possible they should become part of the mainstream adult club. There is nothing better for a child's confidence than to be able to compete with (and occasionally beat) adults.

[Jonathan Rogers]

Slightly off topic but I played at a predominently junior orientated rapidplay event on Saturday where all but 3 of the entrants were juniors. I ended up playing 4 juniors - 2 of them were very promising and indeed one of the two trounced the IM that had entered in one of the rounds. The remaining 2 - one was a girl but needs to increase her concentration at the board and the last one was a really bad apple.

no names of course - the particular kid in question - around 14 I'd guess had a really bad attitude at the board.
Firstly he stuck his hand out as a gesture at a hand shake made no effort to shake hands. Then showed no respect and asked me how to spell my name....it then went from bad to worse...half way through the game the kid interupted me twice when it was my move to inform me he was going out to "get some water" (with the inference that I should wait until he returned before I should make my move) I replied ...do what you like. Then a little later I must not have pushed my clock hard enough as my time was still running while it was his move...I noticed the kid was sneaking his gaze elsewhere and checked my clock ...then pushed it again. Small compensation that I mated him nicely in the end.

It has been some time since I have come across such a bad apple in junior chess. If his coach is reading this I hope he/she tries to teach the kid some chess etiquette or alternatively suggest to his/her young charge that he seeks an alternative interest or pastime.

Admittedly I wasn't there to see this, but from your account it sounds like you might be over-sensitive. It doesn't sound as though he was trying to distract you; far from it, when your clock was running down! And for what it is worth, I can think of many adults who have done many of the same things.

[Martin Crichton]

Jonathan
by my account I might be oversensitive? hmmm interesting theory lol been playing compeditive chess for 35 years now. I think I know a bad apple when I come across one.

I am sure the people that were at the Osterley london rapid play know which kid I was talking about. I am merely highlighting that the kid needs to be taught some manners.

[Peter D Williams]

the last one was a really bad apple.

no names of course - the particular kid in question - around 14 I'd guess had a really bad attitude at the board.
Firstly he stuck his hand out as a gesture at a hand shake made no effort to shake hands. Then showed no respect and asked me how to spell my name....it then went from bad to worse...half way through the game the kid interupted me twice when it was my move to inform me he was going out to "get some water" (with the inference that I should wait until he returned before I should make my move) I replied ...do what you like. Then a little later I must not have pushed my clock hard enough as my time was still running while it was his move...I noticed the kid was sneaking his gaze elsewhere and checked my clock ...then pushed it again. Small compensation that I mated him nicely in the end.

It has been some time since I have come across such a bad apple in junior chess. If his coach is reading this I hope he/she tries to teach the kid some chess etiquette or alternatively suggest to his/her young charge that he seeks an alternative interest or pastime.

Happy New year to all of you.

You could have told the person running the chess event about this bad behavior? Adults also can get up to all sorts of nonsense at an event i remember an adult at hasting who kept talking to me during the game and a junior who kept coughing sneezing.

Well you all been rather busy posting on here over the Christmas break. I shall investigate in detail what has been said on here.I do hope your all keeping safe in this bad weather we are still having. Time for a steak burger and cup of tea.

[Martin Crichton]

yes very good point - I shall forward the info to the organiser. (edit email sent to organiser) Hopefully no infringements from the kid in question at future events

Regards

[Ian Thompson]

Slightly off topic but I played at a predominently junior orientated rapidplay event on Saturday where all but 3 of the entrants were juniors. I ended up playing 4 juniors - 2 of them were very promising and indeed one of the two trounced the IM that had entered in one of the rounds. The remaining 2 - one was a girl but needs to increase her concentration at the board and the last one was a really bad apple.

no names of course - the particular kid in question - around 14 I'd guess had a really bad attitude at the board.
Firstly he stuck his hand out as a gesture at a hand shake made no effort to shake hands. Then showed no respect and asked me how to spell my name....it then went from bad to worse...half way through the game the kid interupted me twice when it was my move to inform me he was going out to "get some water" (with the inference that I should wait until he returned before I should make my move) I replied ...do what you like. Then a little later I must not have pushed my clock hard enough as my time was still running while it was his move...I noticed the kid was sneaking his gaze elsewhere and checked my clock ...then pushed it again. Small compensation that I mated him nicely in the end.

It has been some time since I have come across such a bad apple in junior chess. If his coach is reading this I hope he/she tries to teach the kid some chess etiquette or alternatively suggest to his/her young charge that he seeks an alternative interest or pastime.

Admittedly I wasn't there to see this, but from your account it sounds like you might be over-sensitive. It doesn't sound as though he was trying to distract you; far from it, when your clock was running down! And for what it is worth, I can think of many adults who have done many of the same things.

I tend to agree.

I can think of a few adults who seem to have a problem with handshakes at the start of a game (and often eye contact as well). I put that down to a problem they have in general, rather than just chess related.

I don't see anything wrong with asking how to spell your name. I get that sometimes as well (is there a "p" is my surname or not).

Disturbing you while you are thinking about your move is wrong. Yes, he needs to be told to just leave the board without saying anything first.

Telling you that you haven't pressed your clock properly is a tricky one. It may well be considered unsporting not to do so. On the other hand, there is no reason under the rules why he should, and, if he does, he risks being penalised for disturbing you.

[Jonathan Bryant]

... If his coach is reading this I hope he/she tries to teach the kid some chess etiquette ....

Admittedly I wasn't there to see this, but from your account it sounds like you might be over-sensitive..

I tend to agree.

...
Telling you that you haven't pressed your clock properly is a tricky one.

I think not. My opponent is no more responsible for me pressing the clock than he/she is for me blundering away a piece or choosing a dubious opening.

In general, though, I rather agree with your post.

And yet I alsp agree with Martin's substantive point. It *is* important, I think, that juniors are taught not just how to play chess, but also how the game is played.

[Alex Holowczak]

I don't see anything wrong with asking how to spell your name. I get that sometimes as well (is there a "p" is my surname or not).

You think you have it tough?