European Youth Championships 2014

[Roger de Coverly]

But really, the ratings of their opponents seem lower than ever - and assuming them to be mainly under-rated, the event seems to be even more of a rating trap than ever (exacerbated by the new K-factor of 40).

For some it's only K=20. The point remains though that for players aiming towards a rating related title, such as CM, FM or even IM with the necessary Norms, such events are perhaps better avoided.

[LawrenceCooper]

Nice that we have so many of our best players available for this. In principle. But really, the ratings of their opponents seem lower than ever - and assuming them to be mainly under-rated, the event seems to be even more of a rating trap than ever (exacerbated by the new K-factor of 40).

And it is a further disappointment that there seem to have been three games already between English players. What do the coaches do in that situation?!

Provided that the two players don't have the same coach then they prepare as normal. If they have the same coach then they would probably have a general lesson eg tactics, endings or anything relevant to future rounds. I had the dubious honour on one day of having to prepare against two of my Junior 4NCL team at the European Schools

[LawrenceCooper]

There are two English players on live:

Anita Somton: http://www.chessdom.com/2014-european-y ... -u12-live/
Akshaya: http://www.chessdom.com/2014-european-y ... -u18-live/

[LawrenceCooper]

http://www.chessdom.com/2014-european-y ... -u18-live/ features Akshaya, Amy and Ezra today.

[LawrenceCooper]

Round 3 individual results:

U8B Haolin Zhao 0.5
U8G Navi Haridas 1
U10B Aditya Verma 0.5
U10B Adithya Pramod Paleri 1
U10G Thivyaa Rahulan 1
U10G Anita Somton 0.5
U12B Koby Kalavannan 0
U12B Zheming Zhang 0.5
U12B Charlie McLaren 1
U12B Sacha Brozel 1
U12B Anantha Anilkumar 1
U12B Alex Golding 1
U12B James Moreby 1
U14B Matthew Wadsworth 0
U14B Pavel Asenov 0
U14B Giri Haridas 1
U14B Josh Higgs 0
U14B Theo Slade 1
U14B Richard Zhu 1
U14G Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 1
U16B Ravi Haria 0.5
U16G Cosima Keen 0
U16G Vickie Sit 0
U16G Zoe Varney 0.5
U18B Ezra Kirk 1
U18B John Fraser 0.5
U18G Amy Hoare 1
U18G Katherine Shepherd 0

Team total score 17.5

Round 4 results:

U8B Haolin Zhao 0.5
U8G Navi Haridas 0
U10B Aditya Verma 1
U10B Adithya Pramod Paleri 0
U10G Thivyaa Rahulan 0.5
U10G Anita Somton 0
U12B Koby Kalavannan 1
U12B Zheming Zhang 0
U12B Charlie McLaren 0
U12B Sacha Brozel 1
U12B Anantha Anilkumar 1
U12B Alex Golding 0.5
U12B James Moreby 0.5
U14B Matthew Wadsworth 0.5
U14B Pavel Asenov 0
U14B Giri Haridas 0
U14B Josh Higgs 0
U14B Theo Slade 0
U14B Richard Zhu 1
U14G Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 0
U16B Ravi Haria 0
U16G Cosima Keen 1
U16G Vickie Sit 1
U16G Zoe Varney 0
U18B Ezra Kirk 0
U18B John Fraser 0.5
U18G Amy Hoare 0.5
U18G Katherine Shepherd 0

Team total score 10.5

Cumulative scores:

U8B Haolin Zhao 2.5
U8G Navi Haridas 1
U10B Aditya Verma 2
U10B Adithya Pramod Paleri 1.5
U10G Thivyaa Rahulan 1.5
U10G Anita Somton 2.5
U12B Koby Kalavannan 2
U12B Zheming Zhang 1.5
U12B Charlie McLaren 1.5
U12B Sacha Brozel 3
U12B Anantha Anilkumar 2
U12B Alex Golding 3
U12B James Moreby 2.5
U14B Matthew Wadsworth 2.5
U14B Pavel Asenov 1
U14B Giri Haridas 1
U14B Josh Higgs 0.5
U14B Theo Slade 1.5
U14B Richard Zhu 3.5
U14G Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 3
U16B Ravi Haria 1.5
U16G Cosima Keen 2
U16G Vickie Sit 1
U16G Zoe Varney 1.5
U18B Ezra Kirk 2.5
U18B John Fraser 1
U18G Amy Hoare 2.5
U18G Katherine Shepherd 1

Team total score 52.5

[Martin Crichton]

overrated juniors?

Havi is losing 75 rating points after only 4 games....

his Irish counterpart Conor is not fairing much better losing 60 rating points after 4 games

both these players rated near 2250 but the way this tournament is going they could both be back below 2000 after a single tournament

The new k factors certainly proving volitile but a good shake up in the system was needed.

[Roger de Coverly]

The new k factors certainly proving volatile but a good shake up in the system was needed.

It was always going to be the case that K=40 would both enable players to gain a lot of points over a short period but also enable them to lose a lot of points. If you are able to assume that young players always improve over time, the idea probably works. If you have players with fluctuations in their playing form, it just increases instability. Therefore you worsen rather than solve the problems of young players having inaccurate ratings.

The two attempted solutions in the ECF grades and possibly in national Elo systems are to have an automatic age related supplement or to have a system whereby the rating can be re-based by treating someone as a new player.

In a nine round tournament, there remain rounds available to recover lost points. It's likely to also be a problem in rated weekend tournaments.

[Peter D Williams]

overrated juniors?

Havi is losing 75 rating points after only 4 games....

his Irish counterpart Conor is not fairing much better losing 60 rating points after 4 games

both these players rated near 2250 but the way this tournament is going they could both be back below 2000 after a single tournament

Many of the players from Russia and the Eastern block who have a rating of 1800 are playing more like 2100 or more.These juniors would suck points off of many adult players.I have been to 2 of these events before and you will find very few juniors in this event who are weak.It is also not easy if you have a very long travel time to then go on and play top level chess see below

We travelled as a family, leaving Cornwall first thing on Friday morning, with a 4 hour drive to Heathrow, followed by a 4 hour flight to Istanbul, a 15 hour stopover in Istanbul airport and a 2 hour flight to Batumi in Georgia. Thankfully the coach journey to the hotel was a matter of minutes, although the Georgian authorities seemed to take an age over passport control (a full 5 minutes checking Andrew Martin’s credentials – I can’t think why!) Actually, although that might seem a bit of a long trek, I think we had it quite easy compared to some. Quite a number of players and parents opted to try to get some form of sleep in the departure lounge of the ridiculously busy Istanbul airport (we opted instead for the comfort of a ridiculously expensive airport hotel!), some decided to travel via Trabzon in Turkey, involving a rather long road trip from the airport across the border (some of them are still in transit as I type) and unfortunately we also had the almost inevitable case of lost luggage – hopefully they will be re-united with their belongings soon!

Also food can be an issue at these events but i have not heard if this has been a problem this time.

What ever happens these players will come back stronger and ready to take points off of adults players so watch out

well its time to walk the dog.

[LawrenceCooper]

Akshaya & Richard are amongst the live games today: http://www.chessdom.com/2014-european-y ... -u18-live/

[LawrenceCooper]

Round 5 results:

U8B Haolin Zhao 1
U8G Navi Haridas 1
U10B Aditya Verma 0
U10B Adithya Pramod Paleri 1
U10G Thivyaa Rahulan 1
U10G Anita Somton 0.5
U12B Koby Kalavannan 1
U12B Zheming Zhang 1
U12B Charlie McLaren 0
U12B Sacha Brozel 0
U12B Anantha Anilkumar 0.5
U12B Alex Golding 1
U12B James Moreby 0.5
U14B Matthew Wadsworth 0
U14B Pavel Asenov 0
U14B Giri Haridas 0.5
U14B Josh Higgs 1
U14B Theo Slade 0
U14B Richard Zhu 0
U14G Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 0
U16B Ravi Haria 1
U16G Cosima Keen 0.5
U16G Vickie Sit 0
U16G Zoe Varney 0.5
U18B Ezra Kirk 0.5
U18B John Fraser 1
U18G Amy Hoare 0.5
U18G Katherine Shepherd 0

Team total score 14

U8B Haolin Zhao 3.5
U8G Navi Haridas 2
U10B Aditya Verma 2
U10B Adithya Pramod Paleri 2.5
U10G Thivyaa Rahulan 2.5
U10G Anita Somton 3
U12B Koby Kalavannan 3
U12B Zheming Zhang 2.5
U12B Charlie McLaren 1.5
U12B Sacha Brozel 3
U12B Anantha Anilkumar 2.5
U12B Alex Golding 4
U12B James Moreby 3
U14B Matthew Wadsworth 2.5
U14B Pavel Asenov 1
U14B Giri Haridas 1.5
U14B Josh Higgs 1.5
U14B Theo Slade 1.5
U14B Richard Zhu 3.5
U14G Akshaya Kalaiyalahan 3
U16B Ravi Haria 2.5
U16G Cosima Keen 2.5
U16G Vickie Sit 1
U16G Zoe Varney 2
U18B Ezra Kirk 3
U18B John Fraser 2
U18G Amy Hoare 3
U18G Katherine Shepherd 1

Team total score 66.5

Two players remain unbeaten

[Ian Thompson]

It is also not easy if you have a very long travel time to then go on and play top level chess see below

"We travelled as a family, leaving Cornwall first thing on Friday morning, with a 4 hour drive to Heathrow, followed by a 4 hour flight to Istanbul, a 15 hour stopover in Istanbul airport and a 2 hour flight to Batumi in Georgia. ... Quite a number of players and parents opted to try to get some form of sleep in the departure lounge of the ridiculously busy Istanbul airport ... some decided to travel via Trabzon in Turkey, involving a rather long road trip from the airport across the border (some of them are still in transit as I type) ..."

Which rather begs the question of whether you should go at all if you're in no fit state to play well when you get there.

[Peter D Williams]

It is also not easy if you have a very long travel time to then go on and play top level chess see below

"We travelled as a family, leaving Cornwall first thing on Friday morning, with a 4 hour drive to Heathrow, followed by a 4 hour flight to Istanbul, a 15 hour stopover in Istanbul airport and a 2 hour flight to Batumi in Georgia. ... Quite a number of players and parents opted to try to get some form of sleep in the departure lounge of the ridiculously busy Istanbul airport ... some decided to travel via Trabzon in Turkey, involving a rather long road trip from the airport across the border (some of them are still in transit as I type) ..."

Which rather begs the question of whether you should go at all if you're in no fit state to play well when you get there.

It is an honour to be picked to play for your Country. It is not easy to consider the possible logistical problems the 1st time you participate and even if you can/do you cannot control them. (I certainly didn't/couldn't). All participants want to play the best Chess they can, and comments like this really aren't helpful or encouraging. I wish the Team the very best for the remainder of the Tournament.

[Ian Thompson]

It is also not easy if you have a very long travel time to then go on and play top level chess see below

"We travelled as a family, leaving Cornwall first thing on Friday morning, with a 4 hour drive to Heathrow, followed by a 4 hour flight to Istanbul, a 15 hour stopover in Istanbul airport and a 2 hour flight to Batumi in Georgia. ... Quite a number of players and parents opted to try to get some form of sleep in the departure lounge of the ridiculously busy Istanbul airport ... some decided to travel via Trabzon in Turkey, involving a rather long road trip from the airport across the border (some of them are still in transit as I type) ..."

Which rather begs the question of whether you should go at all if you're in no fit state to play well when you get there.

It is an honour to be picked to play for your Country.

It certainly should be. Let's not divert the discussion on to whether or not the Junior selection policy achieves that.

It is not easy to consider the possible logistical problems the 1st time you participate and even if you can/do you cannot control them. (I certainly didn't/couldn't).

I would expect the ECF team management to make travel arrangements that ensure the players are able to perform at their best. Spending close to 24 hours travelling from Heathrow, with, presumably, a night spent in an airport departure lounge, seems unlikely to achieve that.

All participants want to play the best Chess they can ...

Yes, and as they're all children, the team organisers should make sure they can.

[Jonathan Rogers]

Results so far do seem rather disappointing on the whole, unfortunately. It is entirely possible that conditions at the venue are not wonderful, affecting West Europeans more than East Europeans - that is a guess, which may be wrong, but not an outlandish guess in any event. It is also highly probable that the event is full of under-rated juniors (I assume that Martin C is not serious when he suggests that Ravi Haria, 4= at the British, might actually be over-rated at 2250 or so).

So we do need to consider whether it is such a good idea to send our juniors to these rating trap events. Naturally many parents are keen to see their children play for England. So they put themselves through the torture described by Peter W with the end result being too often much what we are seeing right now in Batumi. But we should ask why the ECF lets them do this, and indeed why junior directors tear themselves to distraction in making the necessary arrangements.

Twenty or more years ago, entering such events made sense. There were fewer under-rated participants, and I assume fewer participants altogether, with consequently less overcrowding at feeding time, etc. Not everyone had coaching back at home in those days, so it was also a rare opportunity to have some GM time; and with fewer participants (and more money in the BCF kitty), less of the cost fell on parents.

But that was then. This is now. Why are we still playing these events, when much nicer, cheaper and rating-friendly open events abroad can be arranged for our younger players, with coaches etc? It seems to me that the main reason is the levels of expectation of some parents and pressure to be allowed to play in (say) the European U-10 which they dream of their offspring winning against all the odds. Should the ECF be resisting this? It has more than enough evidence by now to justify such a stance.

[LawrenceCooper]

I would expect the ECF team management to make travel arrangements that ensure the players are able to perform at their best. Spending close to 24 hours travelling from Heathrow, with, presumably, a night spent in an airport departure lounge, seems unlikely to achieve that. .

It's hardly fair to criticise the ECF team management when families make their own travel arrangements That said, Cornwall to Batumi would be a challenge for anyone