ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

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Michael Flatt
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ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:41 am

Does anyone understand the rationale of the ECF imposing a 100 Euro tax on Juniors competing in International Junior events?

I understand that this charge only applies to individuals accepting an invitation from bodies other than the ECF.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:56 am

Michael Flatt wrote:Does anyone understand the rationale of the ECF imposing a 100 Euro tax on Juniors competing in International Junior events?
You might suppose it's either to make money or to discourage participation. There's nothing on the ECF site, so presumably it's a leak or a rumour. If true, the forthcoming Finance meeting is an opportunity for the ECF Directors to explain their actions. That's provided someone asks the question and whoever chairs the meeting allows the issue to be discussed. It's now too late to get a third party item on the Agenda.

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:11 am

It is not a leak or rumour. It is an identifiable charge "ECF Fee" on an invitation to a Junior.

I believe that this arises from the ECF losing its monopoly of offering invitations to compete in Junior International events.

Surely, doesn't ECF Gold Membership entitle a player to have all his or her International games graded by the ECF without any additional charges?

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:18 am

Why would the ECF even levy a fee in euros? Is it perhaps an organiser's fee, which the ECF normally pays itself? Just a blind guess.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:22 am

Michael Flatt wrote: It is an identifiable charge "ECF Fee" on an invitation to a Junior.
Can you find anywhere that it's announced as a policy? Alternatively somewhere giving evidence of its existence. Not that you will get very far, but posting a challenge on the official forum does at least raise the issue in a manner that ECF Directors ought not to be able to deny knowledge of.


Is this anything to do with the UK Chess Challenge? They were claiming or demanding a right to send winners to International events as runner-up prizes in their events.

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:51 am

I am not aware of any announcements on this by the ECF.

You are correct that this involves the UK Chess Academy which recently gained accreditation as a FIDE Chess Academy. It is related to the Delancey UK Chess Challenge in that it runs a Silver Plate competition for promising players that didn't qualify for the national Terra Final. Winners of the Silver Plate are offered places in Junior International Events.

The UK Chess Academy used to be an ECF "partner organisation" but the much vaunted agreement came to an end when they applied to become an accredited FIDE Academy. The ECF made a formal objection to FIDE over their application, but it failed.

My position is as someone supporting Junior Chess who has no personal involvement with the UK Chess Academy. My intention in posting here was to establish whether Junior Organisers and chess parents are aware of this charge and to canvas their views on it.

The official ECF Forum is effectively moribund, so I much prefer the free and open debate here.

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David Shepherd
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by David Shepherd » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:25 pm

I think its hard to discuss until details emerge of whether the charge will be made, at what level, and what it covers. If my understanding is correct the ECF will still be involved in processing the entries and at least part of the fee may be to recover the admin and other costs they incur.

Angus French
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Angus French » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Michael, why not ask the UK Chess Academy to clarify what the charge is for? If it does turn out that they are passing on a charge levied by the ECF then I would query it with the Director of Junior Chess and Education, possibly copying the Chief Executive and the Non-executive Directors.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:33 pm

There's a statement on the ECF website

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... read#p1523

Angus French
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Angus French » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:09 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:There's a statement on the ECF website
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... read#p1523
Thanks Roger. I see:
Phil Ehr on the ECF Forum wrote:The administrative fee of €100 for the ECF is allowed by FIDE TRG regulations. This may be subject the additional charge for VAT, to be determined. The fee is reasonable in our view. It includes provision of travel insurance for ECF members registered by the ECF, provision of administrative support from ECF volunteers and paid staff and pro bono professionals that may be required to deal with contingencies.
... and I also see from Part B.07 of the FIDE Handbook:
FIDE Handbook B.07 wrote:3.3.5. [A FIDE Academy] Can send its trainees (maximum one player per category - wild cards) to World & Continental Youth Chess Championships and the World and Continental Chess School Championships. In this case the registration must be made via the National Federation. A fee for each FIDE Academy player up to 100 euros can be issued by the National Federation (administrative fees). In case of disagreement on the amount, the FIDE Academy can appeal to TRG, which will make the final decision.
... and I'm doubtful the ECF's 100-Euro fee is justified.

But my fear is that the ECF's action - presumably approved by the Board: perhaps this could be confirmed - is driven by the fact that the UK Chess Academy got its Academy recognition from FIDE without the ECF's endorsement and is now wishing to send its own pupils to participate in international events, possibly with the pupils being under the impression that they'll be representing England when they won't be. I don't like that the FIDE regulations allow this but I wonder whether the ECF is engaging constructively?

Matthew Turner
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:40 pm

It seems to me that FIDE is trying to have their cake and eat it here.
1. They want academies to subvert national federations so that they can get even more player at their junior tournaments and make more money
(you might think this is right or wrong but it is a perfectly logical strategy)
but then they want
2. Every player to have the 'endorsement' of a national federation, presumably in case something goes wrong.

Charging 100 Euro per academy player is a way of the ECF 'getting there own back', but really I think it is quite short-sighted. What would happen if something went wrong? It would be a legal minefield. The ECF should just say, great that extra kids get the chance to go, lovely that the UKCA can send players, but they are separate from us so they do it themselves. FIDE cannot force the ECF to endorse players, so in the end FIDE will have to accept entries direct from UKCA and everyone will be happy. The ECF will have lost out on a few 100 Euros, but I'd suggest potentially a very small price to pay.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:41 pm

Angus French wrote:I don't like that the FIDE regulations allow this but I wonder whether the ECF is engaging constructively?
I don't like it either, but it can only have been inserted under pressure from federations, of which you would expect the ECF to be among the most aggressive. In many places, academies and federations seem happy to work together.

I hope the Academy will appeal, as the regulations permit them to do, because I would like to see what happens. It's interesting that the final decision will be made by the Academies' trade union - in fact, whatever they say, I don't see how it can be the final decision. TRG has a reputation for giving itself authorities which don't stand up.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:54 pm

Why does FIDE Trainers Commission use the acronym TRG, is that French?

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:21 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Why does FIDE Trainers Commission use the acronym TRG, is that French?
TRaininG perhaps
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Nick Grey
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Re: ECF's new 100 Euro Tax on Junior International Events

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:42 pm

Not sure I like the charge to parents. Seems not right with our other chess organisations policy of charging less to encourage.