Junior participation at last Saturday's Kings' Place tournament

[Angus French]

In his latest column in the Guardian, Leonard Barden writes about "the almost total absence of juniors" at last weekend's Kings Place tournament:

In the vintage 70s, when England’s juniors were the best in the world, one of the secrets of success was that squads of up to 30-40 of the best talents were invited and encouraged by the national federation to compete in leading London weekend opens, with financial help from the organisers and chess sponsors. Now our juniors are much weaker, while the English Chess Federation produces paper plans for elite players but fails to take the simpler step of ensuring they compete in opens like King’s Place, which would be excellent training. Next year perhaps, but do not hold your breath.

[John McKenna]

That's a bit surprising, Angus.

Contrast that with the Greek event below -

http://chess-results.com/tnr180882.aspx ... 30&wi=1680

It looks like getting on for half the players are juniors.

It is a "holiday" tournament not a 1-day rapidplay so perhaps it would be better to compare it with a similar English event.

(Is there one, apart from Hastings?)

The Greeks seem to have an active junior project but is it any more effective in producing titled juniors, I wonder.

[Jim Wadsworth]

Whilst I understand Leonard's point, it is worth noting that quite a lot of juniors were playing longplay chess instead that day, in the Open section of the Weald Congress: http://wealdchesscongress.org/results/. Specifically, about a quarter of the Open entry of the Weald comprised juniors who have represented England at recent international events.

I'd accept that the Weald was nowhere near as strong a tournament as that at Kings Place. But since quite a few of those juniors playing at the Weald this year had competed at Kings Place in 2014, and given they were forced to make a choice (as the Kings Place date was later this year (relative to 2014) and clashed with the Weald) it is quite possible they chose to prioritise longplay chess over rapid. Judging by the respective websites, fortunately this clash will likely not be repeated in 2016.

And it is also true to say that two of the stronger juniors who competed in the Open at Kings Place in 2014 were at the time of this year's competition en route to Poland for the European U18 team event...

[Leonard Barden]

That's a bit surprising, Angus.

Contrast that with the Greek event below -

http://chess-results.com/tnr180882.aspx ... 30&wi=1680

It looks like getting on for half the players are juniors.

It is a "holiday" tournament not a 1-day rapidplay so perhaps it would be better to compare it with a similar English event.

(Is there one, apart from Hastings?)

The Greeks seem to have an active junior project but is it any more effective in producing titled juniors, I wonder.

From Round 1: Georgakopoulos, Nikolaos K. (1786) - GM Banikas, Hristos (2628) ½-½

The white player, rated 842 points below his opponent, is aged 12 or 13. The black player is the top seed and Greece's No2 grandmaster.

We used to get the odd huge upset like that in the 1970s when our junior teams played in the Aaronson(Harrow), Enfield, Lara and (Evening Standard) Islington opens, and this encouraged and stimulated all the junior's friends and contemporaries.

Whilst I understand Leonard's point, it is worth noting that quite a lot of juniors were playing longplay chess instead that day, in the Open section of the Weald Congress: http://wealdchesscongress.org/results/. Specifically, about a quarter of the Open entry of the Weald comprised juniors who have represented England at recent international events.

I'd accept that the Weald was nowhere near as strong a tournament as that at Kings Place. But since quite a few of those juniors playing at the Weald this year had competed at Kings Place in 2014, and given they were forced to make a choice (as the Kings Place date was later this year (relative to 2014) and clashed with the Weald) it is quite possible they chose to prioritise longplay chess over rapid. Judging by the respective websites, fortunately this clash will likely not be repeated in 2016.

And it is also true to say that two of the stronger juniors who competed in the Open at Kings Place in 2014 were at the time of this year's competition en route to Poland for the European U18 team event...

To test this, I went to the ECF rating list and performed as I did in the 1970s, ie listing juniors who have active grades and are strong for their age.

I came up with IM James Adair, IM Yang-Fan Zhou, Peter Batchelor, Marcus Harvey, Alan Merry, Ezra Kirk, Isaac Sanders, Joseph McPhillips, Andrew Horton, Ravi Haria, Matthew Wadsworth, Daniel Abbas, Oscar Hackner, Jean-Luc Weller, Akshaya Kalaiyalathan, William Claridge-Hansen, Anthony Zhang, Daniel Hunt, Jude Lenier, Jake Liang, Charlie McLaren, Koby Kalavanan, Amy Hoare, Richard Zhu, Alex Golding.

That is the kind of strength and age group we would have expected to field in 1973-75 in London in the very strong Harrow, Enfield, Lara and (Evening Standard) Islington opens. Many of the participants then went on to become IMs and GMs.

Of those listed above, four are currently flying the flag and giving a sterling performance in Poland, and four competed at the Weald Open. That leaves 18 for whom King's Place would have been an excellent event but who did not participate. I accept, of course, that some of these live a long way from London so there are cost and logistic problems (though we overcame these in the 1970s by a combination of London families offering accommodation, specially reduced entry fees, and sponsorship help) but that still leaves quite a few, and NONE of them participated in King's Place. My case rests.

[LawrenceCooper]

Whilst I understand Leonard's point, it is worth noting that quite a lot of juniors were playing longplay chess instead that day, in the Open section of the Weald Congress: http://wealdchesscongress.org/results/. Specifically, about a quarter of the Open entry of the Weald comprised juniors who have represented England at recent international events.

I'd accept that the Weald was nowhere near as strong a tournament as that at Kings Place. But since quite a few of those juniors playing at the Weald this year had competed at Kings Place in 2014, and given they were forced to make a choice (as the Kings Place date was later this year (relative to 2014) and clashed with the Weald) it is quite possible they chose to prioritise longplay chess over rapid. Judging by the respective websites, fortunately this clash will likely not be repeated in 2016.

And it is also true to say that two of the stronger juniors who competed in the Open at Kings Place in 2014 were at the time of this year's competition en route to Poland for the European U18 team event...

There was also a further clash that weekend with the UK Chess Challenge Northern Gigafinals.

[John Upham]

There was also a further clash that weekend with the UK Chess Challenge Northern Gigafinals.

Of the players previously listed above only Joseph McPhillips played in the Northern Giga Final in Manchester.

Of the rest, six played in the Southern Giga Final on the previous weekend.

[LawrenceCooper]

There was also a further clash that weekend with the UK Chess Challenge Northern Gigafinals.

Of the players previously listed above only Joseph McPhillips played in the Northern Giga Final in Manchester.

Of the rest, six played in the Southern Giga Final on the previous weekend.

There were a lot of other players matching the description of juniors playing at the Gigafinal though

[Adam Raoof]

To be fair, this is a one day event, and it was quite difficult to predict how many strong players would turn out!

What I would love next year is some financial support for juniors, in the form of sponsorship - either for prizes or to support participation. I think we are now in the position where we can be fairly sure the entry will be good next year, and any sponsorship can go towards prizes / junior prizes.

[Adam Raoof]

Good news - we have a sponsor for next year's Kings Place - this means more prizes for the Open and scholarships for juniors, amongst other benefits!

[John Upham]

Great news: who is the sponsor and what are the additional awards, prizes etc?

Don't be shy!

[John McKenna]

Why does the way this is going remind me of -

Press: What happens next Mr Nott? What's your reaction …?
MT [answers emphatically]: Just rejoice at that news...
[MT turns towards the door of No.10]
MT: Goodnight. [Begins walking back to the door of No. 10]

Press: Are we going to...?
MT [pausing on the doorstep of No. 10]: Rejoice.