Comparisons
-
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm
Comparisons
http://en.chessbase.com/post/mighty-ind ... youth-2015
With the ECF Academy about to open on 2/3 Jan, the article above caught my eye.
What can we learn from the way the Indians do things? Or do we live in a culture where we have to do things differently to them?
For instance they seem to have a lot of time to work on chess, whereas we fill our kids time up with exams and activities.
Your input is welcome.
With the ECF Academy about to open on 2/3 Jan, the article above caught my eye.
What can we learn from the way the Indians do things? Or do we live in a culture where we have to do things differently to them?
For instance they seem to have a lot of time to work on chess, whereas we fill our kids time up with exams and activities.
Your input is welcome.
-
- Posts: 2069
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
- Location: Morecambe, Europe
Re: Comparisons
Andrew, isn't chess an 'activity'? What were you thinking of?
Re: Comparisons
Michael, chess isn't an activity - it's our activity. What were you thinking of?
Some time ago I saw the article that Andrew links to, above, but thought it didn't bear comparison with us.
(China and Russia would be more comparable with India and the article does point out their relative failure.)
Now I think it is just long enough since the World Youth Championships took place to take a look around at what others do.
The Indians are an excellent example of what can be done - but size of their ever-growing population is a big difference.
So many Indian juniors competing for what many must regard as a slum-dog rather a slam-dunk chance is another difference.
Iran did quite well and are more our size in population terms - maybe we should consult Soheil on their junior system.
I know that's not the constructive discussion that's needed here but it's all I can say now.
Some time ago I saw the article that Andrew links to, above, but thought it didn't bear comparison with us.
(China and Russia would be more comparable with India and the article does point out their relative failure.)
Now I think it is just long enough since the World Youth Championships took place to take a look around at what others do.
The Indians are an excellent example of what can be done - but size of their ever-growing population is a big difference.
So many Indian juniors competing for what many must regard as a slum-dog rather a slam-dunk chance is another difference.
Iran did quite well and are more our size in population terms - maybe we should consult Soheil on their junior system.
I know that's not the constructive discussion that's needed here but it's all I can say now.
-
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm
Re: Comparisons
Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.
What I am really interested in is exactly what we can learn from nations like India and how we can adapt their ideas into our own junior chess framework and whether we even can. There are many experienced people who read these threads and their opinion would be valuable.
One thing that strikes me is how hard these Indian kids work, although articles like this are prone to exaggeration. Can you see a child from our culture working three hours a day on chess , every day ?
I can't even get talented kids who I coach used to the idea of working for half an hour a day, just to establish a working routine. Some other activity , family life, friends or schoolwork gets in the way. Do other English coaches share this problem?
I' m looking to make the best of what we have as the new Academy launches and I'm willing to consider all ideas as to how to make progress.
What I am really interested in is exactly what we can learn from nations like India and how we can adapt their ideas into our own junior chess framework and whether we even can. There are many experienced people who read these threads and their opinion would be valuable.
One thing that strikes me is how hard these Indian kids work, although articles like this are prone to exaggeration. Can you see a child from our culture working three hours a day on chess , every day ?
I can't even get talented kids who I coach used to the idea of working for half an hour a day, just to establish a working routine. Some other activity , family life, friends or schoolwork gets in the way. Do other English coaches share this problem?
I' m looking to make the best of what we have as the new Academy launches and I'm willing to consider all ideas as to how to make progress.
-
- Posts: 10382
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Comparisons
Andrew
Do you find it depends on the background of the parents? Do those who have come from overseas have a different work ethic?
I wonder if a comparison with India is as useful as a comparison with, say, countries in Western Europe - although I agree we should try and learn from whatever works wherever
I'm guessing India is benefiting from the Anand factor, although it will be more complex than I can understand
Do you find it depends on the background of the parents? Do those who have come from overseas have a different work ethic?
I wonder if a comparison with India is as useful as a comparison with, say, countries in Western Europe - although I agree we should try and learn from whatever works wherever
I'm guessing India is benefiting from the Anand factor, although it will be more complex than I can understand
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm
Re: Comparisons
You ask a complex question Mick. I work in twelve schools, right across the spectrum from a state infant school, through state primaries, private prep schools to the some of the most privileged schools in the country. No matter how talented the kid at chess, no matter from what background, they don't seem to have the time for systematic, considered chess study. Something else always interferes or it's just not a priority for them.
-
- Posts: 10382
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Comparisons
Thanks Andrew, I think that pretty much backs up what Richard James has said
If we can't get the kids to spend the time, then we aren't going to get success whatever strategies we adopt
If we can't get the kids to spend the time, then we aren't going to get success whatever strategies we adopt
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm
Re: Comparisons
Well, that's the challenge the Academy faces. There are lot of good people involved, very experienced coaches and players and we are going to give it our best shot.
-
- Posts: 3053
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Comparisons
Just have to be realistic about defining success I think
Very little chance of lots of U16/U18 GMs for the obvious reasons, and I think thoroughly sane really given how hard it is to earn money doing it.
If you get a bunch of people out to Uni at a strong enough level that they've seen top level chess and, if they find it desirable to truly commit the time to it later, can maybe get to a very good level then that would surely have to rate as good. You'll get the odd long term GM out of it.
Very little chance of lots of U16/U18 GMs for the obvious reasons, and I think thoroughly sane really given how hard it is to earn money doing it.
If you get a bunch of people out to Uni at a strong enough level that they've seen top level chess and, if they find it desirable to truly commit the time to it later, can maybe get to a very good level then that would surely have to rate as good. You'll get the odd long term GM out of it.