Clashing events, 22-23 April

[Roger Lancaster]

22-23 April sees the final weekend of the Junior 4 Nations Chess League but also, on the Saturday, the EPSCA inter-county under-9 final. That's really helpful! It means for example that Watford, which normally contributes u-9s to the Hertfordshire (and, to a lesser degree, Barnet) county sides, will instead be indicating that J4NCL is the more attractive event. Much the same pattern will occur elsewhere in the country with county organisers, equally dismayed at this turn of events, suggesting the exact opposite. Everyone could really have done without the friction this will create.

[LawrenceCooper]

22-23 April sees the final weekend of the Junior 4 Nations Chess League but also, on the Saturday, the EPSCA inter-county under-9 final. That's really helpful! It means for example that Watford, which normally contributes u-9s to the Hertfordshire (and, to a lesser degree, Barnet) county sides, will instead be indicating that J4NCL is the more attractive event. Much the same pattern will occur elsewhere in the country with county organisers, equally dismayed at this turn of events, suggesting the exact opposite. Everyone could really have done without the friction this will create.

There's also an EPSCA rapidplay that clashes with the January Junior 4NCL. I've already agreed with one player in my squad that he plays the EPSCA event on the Saturday and the Junior 4NCL on the Sunday. I don't think that anyone intentionally clashes events but finding a space on the calendar that coincides with venue availability is not easy.

[Roger Lancaster]

Yes, I'd noticed the January clash but felt that was less critical. Agreement with players that they play J4NCL on Sunday only depends on others being acquiescent in sitting out Sunday - fine if others say "Saturday only" but tricky otherwise! I agree, of course, that no-one intentionally clashes (clashes work to the detriment of both events) but wonder if there is some way this could have been avoided. Perhaps if the right two people had spoken to one another ... ?

[Neill Cooper]

Clashes are not easy to avoid and could be seen as a positive sign of chess activity. Certainly J4NCL has grown impressively over the past few years. There is also a clash on the Sunday, with the National Schools Repechage at Eton College http://englishchess.org.uk/NSCC/u19-open/u19-open/ so there may be also some "Saturday only" players, but possibly not in the same teams.

[Alex Holowczak]

Is the clash between an Under 9 event and Junior 4NCL really going to be that much? There might be one or two people in Warwickshire, but I rather doubt Warwickshire would get to the Under 9 Final.

[Michael Flatt]

Is the clash between an Under 9 event and Junior 4NCL really going to be that much? There might be one or two people in Warwickshire, but I rather doubt Warwickshire would get to the Under 9 Final.

For the children and parents that it effects it is a real problem.

The 22nd April is the Final of the EPSCA inter-Association U9 competition. It would have been less significant had it been the zonal qualifier when teams would have been less reliant on their top players.

EPSCA do publish their dates well in advance so perhaps it might be possible to avoid a clash next year.

[Alex Holowczak]

For the children and parents that it effects it is a real problem.

Is it? If it effects Warwickshire, we'll just offer the one or two people the choice of which one they want to go to. It doesn't really matter either way.

EPSCA do publish their dates well in advance so perhaps it might be possible to avoid a clash next year.

Where? I don't see them on the ECF calendar, or the EPSCA website for 2017/18.

[LawrenceCooper]

For the children and parents that it effects it is a real problem.

Is it? If it effects Warwickshire, we'll just offer the one or two people the choice of which one they want to go to. It doesn't really matter either way.

EPSCA do publish their dates well in advance so perhaps it might be possible to avoid a clash next year.

Where? I don't see them on the ECF calendar, or the EPSCA website for 2017/18.

http://www.epsca.org.uk/events/dates.html

[Alex Holowczak]

http://www.epsca.org.uk/events/dates.html

Yes, but they don't have the 2017/18 dates there, which is probably relevant information for the 4NCL if it is looking to avoid clashes when booking venues.

[Michael Flatt]

For the children and parents that it effects it is a real problem.

Is it? If it effects Warwickshire, we'll just offer the one or two people the choice of which one they want to go to. It doesn't really matter either way.

EPSCA do publish their dates well in advance so perhaps it might be possible to avoid a clash next year.

Where? I don't see them on the ECF calendar, or the EPSCA website for 2017/18.

With respect Warwickshire are unlikely to be challenging for first place. Barnet a neighbour of Hertfordshire always makes a strong showing and will be disadvataged not being able to field a full strength side. My association (Hertfordshire) have aspirations of doing well but are often overshadowed by our neighbours. Both our teams have players who play for one of Watford's J4NCL teams.

Roger Lancaster is doing an enormously important job developing Junior players locally and it was his initiative that led to Watford entering teams in the J4NCL.

With regard to next season I don't understand why J4NCL and EPSCA cannot avoid a clash. The world of Junior chess organisers isn't enormous and the individuals that lead the two organisations are well known to each other and should be cooperating.

[Alex Holowczak]

With respect Warwickshire are unlikely to be challenging for first place. Barnet a neighbour of Hertfordshire always make a strong showing and will be disadvataged not being able to field a full strength side. My association (Hertfordshire) have aspirations of doing well but are often overshadowed by our neighbours. Both our teams have players who play for one of Watford's J4NCL teams.

Personally, in a world where Warwickshire were strong, if we didn't win EPSCA because some players were at J4NCL, then it wouldn't bother me at all - the important thing to me is the children play in the right tournament for them, rather than the success of the county.

Roger Lancaster is doing an enormously important job developing Junior players locally and it was his initiative that led to Watford entering teams the J4NCL.

Absolutely!

With regard to next season I don't understand why J4NCL and EPSCA cannot avoid a clash. The world of Junior chess organisers isn't enormous and the idividuals that lead the two organisations are well known to each other and should be cooperating.

Indeed - perhaps EPSCA could help by publishing (or informing the 4NCL of) their dates, which were decided at the AGM a month ago.

[Michael Flatt]

Local Junior organisations take an interest in the ECF's lament at the few opportunities for Junior players to develop into elite players and be able to challenge their rivals internationally. Being able to play on strong competitions within one's own country is a good start.

It seems childish to blame another organisation over a clash of tournament dates when one personally knows the rival organisers and could quite easily communicate with them, if one choose to. If, as you suggest, J4NCL have dates for 2017/18 season I would suggest that you share them rather than complain EPSCA haven't published their's.

Would you like to publish your dates here?

[Alex Holowczak]

It seems childish to blame another organisation over a clash of tournament dates when one personally knows the rival organisers and could quite easily communicate with them, if one choose to. If, as you suggest, J4NCL have dates for 2017/18 season I would suggest that you share them rather than complain EPSCA haven't published their's.

I'm relatively new to the world of English junior chess, having only really got involved in organising local events this season. The thing I've noticed most is that organisations are absolutely terrible at putting dates in the ECF calendar. For example, there's a Midland Under 9/11 competition, about which I only recently learned. It has been going for years, but it has never published it on the ECF calendar; in fact, they've decided to open it more widely this year, because they tend not to get so many entries anymore - for obvious reasons.

In the past, I know that Mike has had to rearrange the 4NCL for clashes with established junior events, because he looked in the calendar, and there was nothing on the weekend. For example, the South of England Championship wasn't on the calendar a few years back, and Mike had to rearrange a Junior 4NCL at relatively short notice.

Would you like to publish your dates here?

They're not "my" dates. Like the main 4NCL, the J4NCL hasn't got any dates for 2017/18 yet. Rest assured that with the 4NCL, as soon as dates and venues are available, they appear on the 4NCL website; and the ECF calendar won't be far behind.

[Roger Lancaster]

I don't want to get into the blame game over this but, as Michael observes, it is a real problem for the children and parents affected. They will be approached separately by club and county and have to decide whom they can best risk offending. Maybe this can be avoided next year although it's not immediately obvious to me (and I may be proved wrong in short order!) that anyone on the EPSCA council actually reads what is posted here.

[Kevin Thurlow]

This is the usual problem with junior events - nobody talks to each other, and there is so much unnecessary competition with other organisations.

Let's get young players enjoying chess!

EPSCA go their own way and claim to be "official". Doubtless others do the same.

I am really rather inclined to some time write an article or booklet or book on "Junior Chess -the truth"

However, I first need protection against the enormous amount of vitriol which would head my way...