Colour split in league matches
-
- Posts: 509
- Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 10:27 am
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
I had a spell of roughly 80% Black in the London and Middlesex Leagues over 4-5 years recently, where the colours are decided by the toss of a coin. Richard Bates was the usual beneficiary of the Whites, so it was probably close to optimal for Hackney's performance as I'm relatively good with Black and Richard the same with White!
As a result I have no White openings (but I never really did anyway...).
Edit: Being a poker player, I know from experience that such stretches of winning and losing coinflips are far more common than most people realise. Someone else can provide the maths, Jack has made a start.
As a result I have no White openings (but I never really did anyway...).
Edit: Being a poker player, I know from experience that such stretches of winning and losing coinflips are far more common than most people realise. Someone else can provide the maths, Jack has made a start.
-
- Posts: 577
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Having had a majority of games with black in every season I've played in the Herts league (colours decided by coin toss) I came to the conclusion that these runs can be exceedingly unlikely, but when they happen those concerned tend to notice it. Hence we get posts on such subjects by those unlucky fellows. Has anyone noticed getting too many whites?
-
- Posts: 5250
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Beats me why anybody still does match colours by coin toss, tbh - I may have said this before, almost as much of a personal bugbear as adjudications
What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?
What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Many years ago I was in a club where one guy played black almost exclusively. He was not a strong player and played on board 5 of 5 for our lowest team in the lesgue. He never played in the club championship. The reason he hardly ever got white was that he made it very clear that he wasn't prepared to travel to away matches, so he was just used as a filler for home matches when we were really desparate!
-
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
I am aware of a league that plays double-round (home and away) each season, with an odd number of boards in each match, and still tosses for colours!!Matt Mackenzie wrote:Beats me why anybody still does match colours by coin toss, tbh - I may have said this before, almost as much of a personal bugbear as adjudications
What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?
I did suggest that was changed, but the league organiser didn't want to. I've had 8 black in 9 games since then.
-
- Posts: 5839
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
"What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?"
People seem to worry that the board order will be amended to give certain players set colours. This tends to give an even bigger imbalance of colours!
However, I played most of a season getting black on board 1, until I discovered that the captain (who played on an even-numbered board) was taking black on one when he won the toss, and of course the opposition invariably took white on won when they won the toss. Surrey League makes it compulsory to take white on one if you win the toss, which offers a better chance of randomizing a player's colours.
People seem to worry that the board order will be amended to give certain players set colours. This tends to give an even bigger imbalance of colours!
However, I played most of a season getting black on board 1, until I discovered that the captain (who played on an even-numbered board) was taking black on one when he won the toss, and of course the opposition invariably took white on won when they won the toss. Surrey League makes it compulsory to take white on one if you win the toss, which offers a better chance of randomizing a player's colours.
-
- Posts: 3053
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
The Yorkshire league moved to fixed colours from coin tosses a couple of years back and I actually preferred it when it was random. With home/away getting white on odd boards then board orders will be fixed for colours at times, which I don't like so much
I try not to do it much, but when you've got a big match coming up then what are you meant to do when some of your players have notable performance disparities/the odd player is actively asking for black?
I try not to do it much, but when you've got a big match coming up then what are you meant to do when some of your players have notable performance disparities/the odd player is actively asking for black?
-
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:37 pm
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Assuming you play each team twice in a season, even better would be for the away team to play white on all boards. Any individual playing all matches is guaranteed an equal number of whites and blacks, late withdrawals don't mean everyone having to change colours. (Tried for one season hereabouts and abandoned because no-one but me liked it - though no-one really said why they didn't like it.)
-
- Posts: 3053
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
I presume they disliked it because it made all the individual matches badly one sided - I'd hate it on those grounds
Yes it balanced over the season, but that doesn't quite make up for it.
Yes it balanced over the season, but that doesn't quite make up for it.
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
That depends on the player, some players have a better record as black than as whiteMartinCarpenter wrote:I presume they disliked it because it made all the individual matches badly one sided - I'd hate it on those grounds
-
- Posts: 3053
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
True, although not that many notably better and more the other way
The database edge is 55-45 or so, or 5 grading pts/board. More significant than that in matches I'd think though as its so much easier to control a game when you've got white.
The database edge is 55-45 or so, or 5 grading pts/board. More significant than that in matches I'd think though as its so much easier to control a game when you've got white.
-
- Posts: 4552
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
- Location: writer
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Matt >
What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?<
That wouldn't work well for Cavendish in the London League. We ply most of our matches at home.
Of course the real answer is that the mistake was made in the 19th century. You should play one game of each colour with each opponent. Had thy organised a large number of tournaments that way, that is what we would do today and think nothing of it.
I may be organising a standardplay Swiss later this year where each round consists of two games against the same opponent, one with white and one with black.
What, exactly, is so difficult about "home/away (delete as applicable) team gets white on odd boards" for anybody to understand?<
That wouldn't work well for Cavendish in the London League. We ply most of our matches at home.
Of course the real answer is that the mistake was made in the 19th century. You should play one game of each colour with each opponent. Had thy organised a large number of tournaments that way, that is what we would do today and think nothing of it.
I may be organising a standardplay Swiss later this year where each round consists of two games against the same opponent, one with white and one with black.
-
- Posts: 1266
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Out of curiosity, is Cavendish one of Her Majesty's correctional institutions?Stewart Reuben wrote: That wouldn't work well for Cavendish in the London League. We ply most of our matches at home.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
-
- Posts: 4552
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
- Location: writer
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Sometimes it feels like that.
So do Metropolitan, Athenaeum, Drunken Knights and possibly some others.
The rest play at a central venue. Thus basing the colour on board 1 on who plays away doesn't work.
So do Metropolitan, Athenaeum, Drunken Knights and possibly some others.
The rest play at a central venue. Thus basing the colour on board 1 on who plays away doesn't work.
-
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Am I just unfortunate?
Morley College also have their own venue in the London League. And London Deaf. At least I assume they still do. Haven’t played at either for a while.Stewart Reuben wrote:Sometimes it feels like that.
So do Metropolitan, Athenaeum, Drunken Knights and possibly some others.
The rest play at a central venue. Thus basing the colour on board 1 on who plays away doesn't work.
Not beyond the wit of chessers to fix this alleged colour-home team problem is it? What’s wrong with designating half of Cavendish’s et al’s matches as "away for colour purposes".
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com