Dramatic changes in congress performances

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Michael Flatt
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:12 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:Michael,
Firstly, there is a slight hint in the title of what you quote that would limit the authority of the document. it is the word 'Recommendation'
Secondly, the quoted law does not make mention of a phone ringing (it concerns itself with a phone being in the playing venue) and it does not say that the game must be lost. Indeed, it specifically says that a lesser penalty may be imposed.

Independently, Roger has indentified Laws 12.8 & 12.9.

The consensus of Arbiters and regular congress players, ie established common practice, is that a sound from a mobile phone/electronic device loses the game. This situation is adequately covered by the Laws of Chess.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Michael Farthing » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:16 pm

It may be common practice: indeed that was my original complaint. 'Common practice' does not make something compulsory - which is what is being discussed.

Brian Towers
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Brian Towers » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:25 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:It may be common practice: indeed that was my original complaint. 'Common practice' does not make something compulsory - which is what is being discussed.

Well, it depends just how common "common practice" is. Common sense is often uncommon but does seem to apply in the Northumberland Chess League whose rules state this:

Northumberland Chess League Rules wrote:13. Any player whose electronic communication device emits a sound, or vibrates, more than once during a game, shall lose their game by default. After the first such incident, it is the responsibility of the team captain to request that their player switch the device off. Players must not receive material assistance in their game through such means, and any player suspected of doing so may be reported to the League Conductor by the opposing team even if under this rule they are allowed to continue with the game.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Howard Grist
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:29 pm

Mick Norris wrote:Has anyone actually analysed the results?

I append some data from the grading database.

Score includes byes with known results for Congresses. Results total only for non-Congress events.
Perf is grading performance in the event
Results is round by round results for congresses only. figures in parentheses indivcate byes ? indicates a bye with no known result (the grader omitted it when sending the results).

Code: Select all

Date       Score  Perf   Results    Event
05/01/2013   1/5    84   000(1)0    Shropshire Congress 2013 - Major U161
05/01/2013   0/1   107   0          Shropshire Congress 2013 - Open
18/01/2013  3½/5   133   ½½½11      e2e4.org.uk Chester Minor
25/01/2013   1/5    82   000(½)(½)  e2e4 West Bromwich Major
02/02/2013   3/5   136   ½½110      Kidlington Chess Tournament 2013: U145
08/02/2013   4/5   138   111½½      e2e4.org.uk Torquay Minor
02/03/2013   4/5   144   1½11½      Warwickshire Minor (2013)
08/03/2013   1/5    79   (½)000½    e2e4.org.uk High Wycombe Open
16/03/2013   4/4   153   (?)1111    Castle Hereford Minor
29/03/2013   4/5   133   11011      Southend Congress
05/04/2013   1/4    69   (?)00½½    Bristol Spring Congress 2013
13/04/2013   4/5   132   1½½11      Staffordshire Congress: Minor
20/04/2013   1/5    90   00½0½      Nottingham Congress
26/04/2013   4/5   138   ½11½1      e2e4.org.uk Solihull ECF Sections
10/05/2013   1/5    55   (½)000½    e2e4.org.uk Nottingham non-FIDE
25/05/2013  4½/6   132   11101½     Cotswold Congress
01/06/2013  1½/5    69   0010½      EACU Congress 2013
07/06/2013   4/5   126   01111      South Lakes Minor II
29/06/2013  4½/5   143   11½11      Castle Potters Bar Minor
05/07/2013   ½/5    96   0000½      e2e4.org.uk Sunningdale Congress (July 2013)
20/07/2013  3½/5   146   ½1½½½      5th Worcestershire Congress: Intermediate
02/08/2013  2½/5   100   ½10½½      British Championships 2013: Weekender Yates U125
05/08/2013   1½5    99   000½1      British Championships 2013: 5 Day Open PM Week 2
05/08/2013   4/5   137   11110      British Championships 2013: Under 120 Championship
17/08/2013   ½/4    72   000½       Jessie Gilbert Celebration International: Sections for All A
23/08/2013   2/7    74   (½)0001½0  e2e4.org.uk Coventry Congress U135
30/08/2013   ½/4    60    (?)000½    Manchester Autumn 2013 Knights
01/09/2013    12   124               Birmingham & District League (final)
01/09/2013     4    95               Worcestershire: Ball/Bennett Cups 2013-14
06/09/2013   ½/3    50   (½)00      Leek Congress 2013: Main C
21/09/2013   5/5   160   11111      Castle Dudley Minor
01/10/2013     1   160               MCCU Counties
19/10/2013   2/3   106   110        Witney Weekend Congress 2013: U120
25/10/2013  4½/5   151   11½11      Scarborough Congress
08/11/2013   2/5    94   1½00½       Preston Congress (2013): Standard (26th)
29/11/2013   1/5    65   (½)000½    Leicester (H.E. Atkins Memorial) Congress Major
21/12/2013  2½/5    91   ½0110      CCF Christmas Congress 2013: Under 125
28/12/2013  3½/4   141   11½1       Hastings International 2013/14: Christmas C
30/12/2013  3½/5   128   1½½½1      Hastings International 2013/14: New Year Afternoon C
30/12/2013   1/3    90   100        Hastings International 2013/14: New Year Morning C
03/01/2014   4/5   136   11½½1      Hastings International 2013/14: Weekend Under 120
01/02/2014  3½/5   139   1½1½1      Kidlington Chess Tournament 2014: U120
15/02/2014   7/7   128   (1)111111  UK Chess Academy 4th FIDE Congress: U110
22/02/2014  3½/5   123   1½101      Castle Dudley Minor
01/03/2014   4/5   135   ½11½1      Warwickshire U120
07/03/2014   0/1    51   0          Blackpool Conference: Filler Games (2014)
07/03/2014   1/5    97   000(1)0    Blackpool Conference: Open (2014)
14/03/2014  4½/5   144   (?)11½11   Castle Hereford Minor
29/03/2014   4/5   126   111½½      Nottingham Congress
26/04/2014     4   108              National Club 2014
09/05/2014  4½/5   143   1111½      Frome Congress Minor
13/06/2014   4/5   127   ½11½1      Bournemouth Grand Congress
21/06/2014   1/4    61   000(1)     Heywood Congress: Antonin Weleminsky Minor
21/06/2014   0/1    63   0          Heywood Congress: Graded Filler Games (2014)
04/07/2014   4/5   145   111½½      Colwyn Bay Congress: Minor
12/07/2014  4½/5   147   111½1      Worcestershire Congress: Minor - Under 115
25/07/2014  4½/5   160   11½11      British Championship: Weekend U125: Yates
28/07/2014  3½/5   133   11½10      British Under 120 Championship
22/08/2014   2/4   116   (?)1100    Bristol Summer Congress: Minor
29/08/2014   1/5    74   (½)½000    Manchester Autumn 2014 Knights
01/09/2014     8   111              Birmingham & District League (final)
01/09/2014     1    89              Worcester and District League
06/09/2014  4½/5   156   (½)1111    CCF Late Summer LP Congress: u1700/u130
03/10/2014   ½/5    77   (½)0000    Hull Congress  Inter
18/10/2014   2/5    93   00(½)½1    Witney Congress (2014): U-145 (2nd)
24/10/2014   1/5   102   01000      Scarborough Congress  Minor
28/11/2014  1½/5    78   (½)00½½    Leicester Chess Congress Minor
20/12/2014  1½/5    91   (½)1000    CCF Christmas Congress: Under 1700
03/01/2015  3½/5   141   111½0      Shropshire Chess Congress 2015: Minor (U125)
30/01/2015   4/5   150   11011      4NCL Congress: Minor (1st)
20/02/2015   4/5   153   (½)111½    Bristol Winter Minor U125
13/03/2015  1½/5   118   (?)0½001   Castle Hereford Major U160
03/04/2015   ½/5    51   ½0000      CCF Easter LP Congress: u1700 / u130
11/04/2015     4   181               National club 2015
18/04/2015  4½/5   169   111½1      Nottingham Congress
15/05/2015  4½/5   151   111½1      Rhyl Congress 2015
23/05/2015  5½/6   151   111½11     Cotswold Congress
19/06/2015   4/5   168   (½)11½1    Bournemouth Grand Congress Intermediate (4th)
11/07/2015   4/5   167   (½)111½    Weald Chess Congress: Intermediate U140 (9th)
27/07/2015   1/5    78   01000      British Chess Championships: Under 140 (2015)
31/07/2015   5/5   165   11111      British Chess Championships: Weekend Yates (2015)

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:53 pm

Howard Grist wrote:I append some data from the grading database.


If you run the same enquiry on rapid play events, I believe you would find just as many with a similar inconsistency of results.

NickFaulks
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby NickFaulks » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:03 pm

Tournament organisers have every right to take the view that mobile phones blasting out an Arctic Monkeys ringtone are a scourge of tournament chess and the culprit will be punished by loss of the game. What they should not do is insist that this is required by some imaginary FIDE rule and they are only doing it because Kirsan says they must.

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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:06 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:If you run the same enquiry on rapid play events, I believe you would find just as many with a similar inconsistency of results.

You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.

I should also have mentioned that the above list is all Stephen Crockett's standard play events from 1/1/2013 to 31/7/2015.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:30 pm

Howard Grist wrote:You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.


I would recommend a second look at the 2014-15 Rapid performance.


Check Bolton and Bourne End for a contrast.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mick Norris
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Mick Norris » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:30 pm

2014/15 Rapidplays he scored 5, 5.5, 6 & 6 (presumably out of 6 in each case) at the 4 Rapidplays in the Midlands GP
2013/14 he scored 21 in 6 events
2012/13 he scored 4.5, 5, 3, 4 & 3
2011/12 he scored 4.5, 3.5, 5.5, 3.5, 4.5 and 1
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

David Sedgwick
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:31 pm

NickFaulks wrote:Tournament organisers have every right to take the view that mobile phones blasting out an Arctic Monkeys ringtone are a scourge of tournament chess and the culprit will be punished by loss of the game. What they should not do is insist that this is required by some imaginary FIDE rule and they are only doing it because Kirsan says they must.

It's a bit rich for you to describe the rule as imaginary. It's no longer a specific requirement of the Laws, but it was prior to 1st July 2014.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:44 pm

Howard Grist wrote:You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.

Not in his last 8 events but look at the events immediately preceding those.

Bourne End (29/03/2015) is a curiousity.
0/4 for the rounds 1,2,3,5 against opponents graded below 129.

Round 4 Filler in Open. Win over Charlie B Nettleton ( 267573A ) Graded 174B

NickFaulks
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby NickFaulks » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:57 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:It's a bit rich for you to describe the rule as imaginary. It's no longer a specific requirement of the Laws, but it was prior to 1st July 2014.

It's been imaginary for the past sixteen months, then. What is rich is that after FIDE relented and weakened the old rule under a torrent of complaints that it was too draconian, in particular from England, it turns out that the arbiters here actually liked the old rule and continue to use their discretion to enforce it.

If this discussion is to be continued, it is probably worthy of a separate thread!
Last edited by NickFaulks on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alan Walton
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Alan Walton » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:57 pm

There really should be a reviewing system within the ECF Grading heirarchy, to investigate sandbagging claims; and thus impose sanctions if proven guilty (obviously with safeguards if mitigating circumstance exist and are accepted)

Howard Grist
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Howard Grist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:03 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: Howard Grist wrote:
You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.
Howard Grist wrote: You may believe that, but in fact you don't - he would appear to have never scored more than 50% in a rapidplay event.

I would recommend a second look at the 2014-15 Rapid performance.


Ah yes, apologies, you are right, you do indeed get a similar trend there. I was looking at Grand Prix scores which are halved for rapidplay events.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Dramatic changes in congress performances

Postby Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:08 pm

Howard Grist wrote:Ah yes, apologies, you are right, you do indeed get a similar trend there. I was looking at Grand Prix scores which are halved for rapidplay events.


Now there's a thought, look at the winner of the 2014-15 national Grand Prix in the 120-139 category.
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/ecf-grand-prix-14-15/

This season there's a monetary prize courtesy of Tradewise.


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