Closed Sicilian
-
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:41 pm
Closed Sicilian
anyone know of any games in the closed sicilian where black dosn't play g3 but instead he plays nd4 thanks
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: closed sicilian
I assume you mean g6 because g3 is a square in front of white's king often occupied by a white pawn in Closed Sicilians. It's difficult to see g6/Nd4 as an either/or because one of Black's issues in the Closed Sicilian is where to develop the dark squared bishop. The main choices being e7 and g7. If you play it to e7, then you don't need to play g6. In either position for the bishop, Nd4 might be played.stevehawkins wrote:anyone know of any games in the closed sicilian where black dosn't play g3 but instead he plays nd4 thanks
Perhaps some moves so we can see what sort of positions you are thinking about. "Closed" Sicilian can cover a multitude of different plans.
-
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
- Location: Evesham
-
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:43 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
Andrew Martin has an interesting article from '04 examining the accelerated thrust 3.P-KKt4 in preference to White's 3.g3.
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_ ... ipped.html
As Roger posted, though, aiming for ...Nd4 is almost thematic for Black, regardless of where the KB resides, that choice maybe being more an aspect of how one chooses to defend rather than how one chooses to counter-attack. Equally, White will often cramp the move ...Nd4 by playing c3.
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_ ... ipped.html
As Roger posted, though, aiming for ...Nd4 is almost thematic for Black, regardless of where the KB resides, that choice maybe being more an aspect of how one chooses to defend rather than how one chooses to counter-attack. Equally, White will often cramp the move ...Nd4 by playing c3.
-
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:41 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
yes the closed sicilian moves whent like this
1 e4 c5
2 nc3 nc6
3 d3 d6
4 g3 nd4
because black has not decided which side to castle a white kingside pawn storm seems poor plus the active d4 square is good any games with this position would be greatfull thanks especialy if black castles long thanks
1 e4 c5
2 nc3 nc6
3 d3 d6
4 g3 nd4
because black has not decided which side to castle a white kingside pawn storm seems poor plus the active d4 square is good any games with this position would be greatfull thanks especialy if black castles long thanks
-
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am
Re: Closed Sicilian
It is probably a bit early to move the Knight. I would have thought that 5. N(c)e2 would give White a comfortable position. I think 5. N(g)e2 would be slightly less good
-
- Posts: 5244
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Closed Sicilian
Heh, just noticed thatMatthew Turner wrote:I think 5. N(g)e2 would be slightly less good
No doubt that's *why* Black employs that particular move order - I wonder how many times it has come off??
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
-
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:43 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
My first thought was Nce2 but I think it's too reactive and feels crampy (if that's a word). I'd rather play Bg2 and just get on with development.
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
A database lookup suggests that Nd4 is a novelty. A quick check with Rybka doesn't think there's anything wrong with it though. I'm sure the normal variety of plans is possible from that position but anyone who plays it is on their own !stevehawkins wrote:
1 e4 c5
2 Nc3 Nc6
3 d3 d6
4 g3 Nd4
-
- Posts: 1397
- Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 pm
- Location: Oldham
Re: Closed Sicilian
I think that the Nce2 idea, allows white the immediate c3 move and poses black the decision what he is supposed to do with the Knight.
Bg2 straight away is acceptable though, but Matthew's idea seems more proactive than reactive
Alan
Bg2 straight away is acceptable though, but Matthew's idea seems more proactive than reactive
Alan
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
The plausible sequence 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 d3 d6 4 g3 Nd4 5 Bg2 g6 6 f4 Bg7 reaches a position with at least 70 previous games.Anthony Taglione wrote:My first thought was Nce2 but I think it's too reactive and feels crampy (if that's a word). I'd rather play Bg2 and just get on with development.
-
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:43 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
Interesting. 6.f4 feels a tad premature, though. Do you have a results breakdown on those 70 games?
-
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:43 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
... and that's why games have to be fought out over the board.Alan Walton wrote:I think that the Nce2 idea, allows white the immediate c3 move and poses black the decision what he is supposed to do with the Knight.
Bg2 straight away is acceptable though, but Matthew's idea seems more proactive than reactive
Alan
Often, assuming no forcing sequence or clear positional error, a move choice comes down only to steering the game into a pattern one is happiest with. Personally, I like the Knight being on c3 and would rather bring out the White King's Knight to proffer an exchange.
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
Overall white scored just 45% on 71 games. However in 26 games, white played Nce2 with a 54% score.Anthony Taglione wrote:Interesting. 6.f4 feels a tad premature, though. Do you have a results breakdown on those 70 games?
Many Closed Sicilian lines do badly for white in % terms. 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 Nc6 only scores 49% in aggregate although 3 Bb5 scores 59%.
-
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:43 pm
Re: Closed Sicilian
Thanks for those data, Roger.