British Championship 2014 Schedule

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JustinHadi

Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JustinHadi » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:23 am

Presumably there will be a QC meeting in Tromso so this matter could be solved very quickly if someone proposed an amendment to the QC regulations. I'm not familiar with the procedure for proposing amendments. Mikko Markkula above admits there may have been a mistake in not including the decision of the Organizers Committee in the regulations of the QC in 2002. The relevant decision of the Organizers Committee (which was approved by the GA) is on the FIDE website.

http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... eport.html
73rd FIDE Congress: Annex 30 - Organizers Committee Report wrote: 12. The World Major medallists shall be awarded the title of FIDE master. The Champion shall be awarded a 9 round im norm
For information the other players who should be eligible for the FM title are Robert Richmond and Samuel G Williams.

http://ratings.fide.com/tournament_repo ... nt16=28295.

E Michael White
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by E Michael White » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:43 am

JustinHadi wrote:For information the other players who should be eligible for the FM title are Robert Richmond and Samuel G Williams.
Hi Justin.
Are you sure about that? Medal positions were to be decided on total points scored; the FIDE report, you show, only gives points against rated oppos. There was a 3 way tie for third place which should be split as in the then FIDE Tournament Rules, which some arbiters feel don't apply in ENG events !

JustinHadi

Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JustinHadi » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:47 am

Hi E Michael.

I'm not sure about that but it might be worth investigating! Petr Marusenko is already an IM of course.

E Michael White
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by E Michael White » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:00 am

If Petr Marusenko took third place on tie break, I expect the FM title would not pass to one of the others as it attached to the medal position. The other 3rd place was Thomas Eggleston.

Will we ever find out who forgot to say what to whom in this tale of misplaced FM titles ?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:19 am

E Michael >Will we ever find out who forgot to say what to whom in this tale of misplaced FM titles?<

Almost certainly Neil and his team did not know about the World Major title regulations. They hd no reason to split the tie for third place because they probably didn't even know about the bronze medal.
I failed to mention the titles to anybody until later.
The late Mikko seems to have thought that the QC was in charge of these regulations whereas it is the GA.
I presumably never found out about Mikkos' decision. It seems unlikely it was discussed at a QC meeting. I don't remember whether I was by 2002 a member of the QC. Surely though I was when Mikko became chairman.

But it doesn't matter. Mistakes happen even with the best will in the world.

Joe, was a gold-coloured medal provided for the World Major? I rather doubt it.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:55 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: The late Mikko seems to have thought that the QC was in charge of these regulations whereas it is the GA.
He was completely correct in his decision. The QC does not have the power to give titles which are not mentioned in the Title Regulations. The GA ( and nobody else ) can confirm changes to the Title Regulations, but in this case they had not done so. Expressing a general desire for a change by approving a report from another Commission is not sufficient.
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E Michael White
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by E Michael White » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:59 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:Joe, was a gold-coloured medal provided for the World Major? I rather doubt it.
HaHa Everyone knows physical medals would not be supplied. I used the terminology of - FIDE D.VII.03. World Major Championship to be consistent. Consistency of chess laws across chess federations and within federations is one way to reduce errors. Clear ownership is another. I expect being a new event the ownership between yourself and the British Championship Managers was not clear. Well looks like its being sorted now.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:15 pm

Medals were certainly supplied for the World Senior Team Championship in the Isle of Man in 2004. Extra gold medals were struck at the last moment because Germany and Israel split the title rather than it depend solely on the final result of their lowest opponents. The other 7 they had identical results against.

Alistair Campbell
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by Alistair Campbell » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:12 pm

So where are we?

It seems clear that the intention was for the medallists at the World Major to receive titles or norms.

There is no evidence of this being disputed - in fact, it seems the proposal was approved by the GA (General Assembly?)
in 2002.

However, there is no evidence that the Title and Rating Regulations were amended, hence the Qualification Commission (who approve titles?) was unable to approve the award of any titles won as above.

Have I got this correct? (I had hoped to live my entire life in blissful ignorance of the internal workings of FIDE, but sadly this no longer seems possible).

if so (or even if not...) can anything be done to rectify matters?

Has this thread set any alarm bells ringing? Is David Sedgwick on the case?

Was the World Major ever held again? Did it become the "World Intermediate"? I note a reference to D.VII.03. To what does this refer?
An outdated copy of the regs, perhaps?

JustinHadi

Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JustinHadi » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:10 pm

Hi Alastair,

Nick Faulks is the secretary of the QC. An e-mail to the QC requesting the title from Dougie Bryson or Andy Howie with the links I gave above and any relevant player information, FIDE player ID number etc would probably cover everything. I don't know enough about FIDE to say if and when the application would be successful but it seems all required information is covered. Or ask David Sedgwick? I enjoyed playing for Edinburgh West in 1997/8 so it would be good to see Joe get the title.
NickFaulks wrote:
Stewart Reuben wrote: Can you put it on the agenda for the QC for Tromso? It is absolutely clear that Joe was entitled to be an FM from winning the event.
Not to me it isn't - this is the first I've ever heard about it. We need someone to put forward a request with full chapter and verse. Can you do that?

JoeRedpath
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JoeRedpath » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:25 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:E Michael >Will we ever find out who forgot to say what to whom in this tale of misplaced FM titles?<

Almost certainly Neil and his team did not know about the World Major title regulations. They hd no reason to split the tie for third place because they probably didn't even know about the bronze medal.
I failed to mention the titles to anybody until later.
The late Mikko seems to have thought that the QC was in charge of these regulations whereas it is the GA.
I presumably never found out about Mikkos' decision. It seems unlikely it was discussed at a QC meeting. I don't remember whether I was by 2002 a member of the QC. Surely though I was when Mikko became chairman.

But it doesn't matter. Mistakes happen even with the best will in the world.

Joe, was a gold-coloured medal provided for the World Major? I rather doubt it.
No I never received any medal from what I can remember, only two trophies (one which I returned the next year).

JoeRedpath
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JoeRedpath » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:32 pm

JustinHadi wrote:Hi Alastair,

Nick Faulks is the secretary of the QC. An e-mail to the QC requesting the title from Dougie Bryson or Andy Howie with the links I gave above and any relevant player information, FIDE player ID number etc would probably cover everything. I don't know enough about FIDE to say if and when the application would be successful but it seems all required information is covered. Or ask David Sedgwick? I enjoyed playing for Edinburgh West in 1997/8 so it would be good to see Joe get the title.
NickFaulks wrote:
Stewart Reuben wrote: Can you put it on the agenda for the QC for Tromso? It is absolutely clear that Joe was entitled to be an FM from winning the event.
Not to me it isn't - this is the first I've ever heard about it. We need someone to put forward a request with full chapter and verse. Can you do that?
Hi Justin,

I would be amazed if the title could be awarded after a 10 year gap, but if there is a chance worth a try!

Thanks for your detective work, much appreciated.

Are you still playing these days?

Joe

JustinHadi

Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by JustinHadi » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:43 pm

Hi Joe,

Not very well! ECF 145 at the moment. Maybe I should go into chess administration, haha.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:13 pm

You were a bit higher than that when I played you at Blackpool :shock:
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David Sedgwick
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Re: British Championship 2014 Schedule

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:26 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:Is David Sedgwick on the case?
Yes
David Sedgwick wrote:I now have the necessary information to enable the matter to be taken forward ... and I'll circulate the key people accordingly.
Pursuant to that, I spoke to Nick Faulks this morning.


I don't wish to comment further on the matter in this thread.