Is this a record?

[stevencarr]

In the first 9 moves of my game on Wednesday in a local club championship,my opponent as Black moved his c8-Bishop 6 times.

It went from c8 to b7,e4,f5,g4,h5 and then g6.

Is this a record for moving the c8-Bishop as Black?

[Gordon Cadden]

In the first 9 moves of my game on Wednesday in a local club championship,my opponent as Black moved his c8-Bishop 6 times.

It went from c8 to b7,e4,f5,g4,h5 and then g6.

Is this a record for moving the c8-Bishop as Black?

We need to see the White moves.

[stevencarr]

In the first 9 moves of my game on Wednesday in a local club championship,my opponent as Black moved his c8-Bishop 6 times.

It went from c8 to b7,e4,f5,g4,h5 and then g6.

Is this a record for moving the c8-Bishop as Black?

We need to see the White moves.

You can't. I am keeping the line a secret as preparation for a game on August 4th.

It was not exactly book.....

In the Alekhine's, the Knight can move a lot of times, but does it ever move more than 6 out of 9?

[Lewis Martin]

In the Two Knights Tango (or Mexican Defence), I suppose it is possible for Black to play only knight moves for a long time albeit this is with two knights.

One such line could be (how good it is, I don't really know much about this 'theory', so I can only take a dim view of this in my opinion):

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 Nc6 3. d5 Ne5 4. e4 Nxe4 5. f4 Ng6 6. Bd3 Nf6 7. f5 Ne5 8. Nf3 Nxf3+ 9. Qxf3

I appreciate that this isn't likely to happen in a real game even if all of these are reasonably plausible moves to play. This makes it 8 consecutive knight moves for Black!

As for the Alekhine, there is the Chase variation which goes like this:

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. c5 Nd5, and there are a few other lines as well, so I am sure it is possible for it to be 6 out of 9 moves, how good it is, is another matter.

Unprovoked, Black could really wind White up with this:

Continuing the above line... 5. d4 e6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. Bd3 Ng8

So this makes it 6 moves out of 7.

Or even 5. Bc4 Nb4 6. a3 N4c6 7. d4 e6 8. Nf3 Ne7 9. 0-0 Ng8! Which makes this 8 moves out of 9.

I would not recommend it though!

[Jonathan Bryant]

The best I can come up with in a legitimate line (i.e. the sort of thing a GM might play) is the following. It’s only White moving the king’s bishop 4 times in the first 10 moves, but the fun doesn’t start until move 6 and the bish ends up swapping itself off.


[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "?"] [Round "?"] [White "?"] [Black "?"] [Result "*"] 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.Be2 Nh6 7.Bd3 cxd4 8.cxd4 Bd7 9.Bc2 Nf5 10.Bxf5 exf5 *

[Paul McKeown]

As for the Alekhine, there is the Chase variation which goes like this:

1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. c5 Nd5, and there are a few other lines as well, so I am sure it is possible for it to be 6 out of 9 moves, how good it is, is another matter.

Unprovoked, Black could really wind White up with this:

Continuing the above line... 5. d4 e6 6. Nf3 Ne7 7. Bd3 Ng8

So this makes it 6 moves out of 7.

Or even 5. Bc4 Nb4 6. a3 N4c6 7. d4 e6 8. Nf3 Ne7 9. 0-0 Ng8! Which makes this 8 moves out of 9.

I would not recommend it though!

None of those lines is remotely likely to be played by a competent (or incompetent even) player of the Black pieces. I have been playing Alekhine's Defence for about 15 years, know a fair bit about it and I cannot think of any book lines in which the Ng8-f6-d5-b6 knight moves more than once, or twice in the next dozen moves. If it did move several times in the next handful of moves, it would likely be something like Nb6xc4 followed by Nc4xe3, usually indicating that White has blown his own brains out. Of course, a (very) few people will also try some pointless a2-a4-a5 rigamarole, as if fixated on the b6 knight, but chasing it once doesn't amount to making it move several times. As for the Chase Variation, pffft, it that was all that Black had to worry about, everyone would be playing the Alekhine's. White chases the b6 knight to a better square and mucks his own pawn structure up into the bargain. Sveshnikov, c3 Sicilian players (or addicts) who couldn't be bothered learning something proper against the Alekhine's, and a few aggressive gamblers dreaming of a quick kingside knockout only.

[Michael W Healey]

5/10 moves with one knight (6 with both) is quite easy with the BKT, as hinted at above:

http://www.365chess.com/game.php?gid=3895323
(Based on the game Ward-Palliser '00)

Old Indian / Tromp lines are the best for bishop moves, although 6/9 is impressive.

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Bb4 3. Nd5 Bc5 4. b4 Bf8 is perfectly playable, with 3/4 Bishop moves.

[Lewis Martin]

None of those lines is remotely likely to be played by a competent (or incompetent even) player of the Black pieces. I have been playing Alekhine's Defence for about 15 years, know a fair bit about it and I cannot think of any book lines in which the Ng8-f6-d5-b6 knight moves more than once, or twice in the next dozen moves. If it did move several times in the next handful of moves, it would likely be something like Nb6xc4 followed by Nc4xe3, usually indicating that White has blown his own brains out. Of course, a (very) few people will also try some pointless a2-a4-a5 rigamarole, as if fixated on the b6 knight, but chasing it once doesn't amount to making it move several times. As for the Chase Variation, pffft, it that was all that Black had to worry about, everyone would be playing the Alekhine's. White chases the b6 knight to a better square and mucks his own pawn structure up into the bargain. Sveshnikov, c3 Sicilian players (or addicts) who couldn't be bothered learning something proper against the Alekhine's, and a few aggressive gamblers dreaming of a quick kingside knockout only.

Whoa! I was only teasing, and just saying that it would be a pretty annoying thing to lose as White in a cheeky blitz game where Black has essentially wasted 6/7/8 moves in the opening!

As for the "Of course, a (very) few people will also try some pointless a2-a4-a5 rigamarole, as if fixated on the b6 knight, but chasing it once doesn't amount to making it move several times." well, it is more common than you think, and I would say that in some situations this is not pointless, and actually very strong.

Indeed a Grandmaster played this against me, and while the a4-a5 push was relatively harmless in itself, it was the follow-up that I badly misjudged how good it was: a5-a6! It botched (more choice words could have been used!) my position up and I resigned soon after since I was losing and didn't want to waste my time or his. This was wise since I essentially had a rest day and won the next three games on the trot!

[Geoff Chandler]

The Edinburgh player Rudolf Austin when the mood takes him
will play as Black 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 Ng8 and provided White does not
play e4 he will play Nf6-g8-f6-g8-f6 then e6.

I've sat beside him in a league match and watched him do this and win.
He has also had the occasional disaster with it. Don't try this at home.

Is This a Record?

There is a World Record Chess Wiki Site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wo ... s_in_chess

I actually make an entry for one of my efforts.
'Largest number of helpless pinned pieces.'
I never knew it was there till a few weeks ago.

G.Chandler - R.Kynoch, Edinburgh Club Championship 1981 (final position)

2rqkrQ1/pp1nb3/5N2/1BP5/3B3P/5P2/PPP5/2K1R3 b - - 4 27

The Knight is giving mate. It can be captured by three pieces.
A Rook, a Bishop and a Knight. All three pieces are pinned to the King.

[John McKenna]

In the first 9 moves of my game on Wednesday in a local club championship,my opponent as Black moved his c8-Bishop 6 times.

It went from c8 to b7,e4,f5,g4,h5 and then g6.

Is this a record for moving the c8-Bishop as Black?

I think that the line of play hinted at in the initial post might be a record number of moves for such a bishop in the opening since that particular prelate is usually the more parochial. (Though there is the line - 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.g4 Be4 5.f3 Bg6 6.h4 h6 7.h5 Bh7 8.Bd3 Bd3...)

The closest I could find to the scenario given is Rodriguez Lapetra,J-Gonzalez Diaz,E (1532) 2009 Tenerife Open in which Black's light-square bishop moved 6 times in 10 moves -

1.e4 b6 2.Nf3 Bb7 3.d4 Be4 4.Nc3 Bb7 5.Bc4 d5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.Bd3 Nf6 8.O-O Bc8 9.Re1 Bg4 10.h3 Bh5... (The bishop later moved twice more before being exchanged.)

According to Tim Krabbe's Chess Records site (http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/records/records.htm) -

"In Gonzalez - Karlsson, Sitges 2009 the c8-Bishop visited 27 different squares."

However, when I tried to check how many of the said 27 bishop moves were in the first nine I only found, in databases, the game Karlsson,L (2468)-Gonzalez Garcia,J (2509) 2009 Sitges Open -

1.Nf3 Nf6 2.b3 e6 3.g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bb7 5.Bb2 Be7 6.O-O O-O 7.c4 c5 8.e3 d5 1/2-1/2!?

[Stewart Reuben]

I once had a game where, on consecutive moves, I played f3, f4, f5, fxe6 where it perished. They were all logical and I won the game.

[Lewis Martin]

I once had a game where, on consecutive moves, I played f3, f4, f5, fxe6 where it perished. They were all logical and I won the game.

Stewart, you might like one of my games then!

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Nc6 5. Be2 Bf5 6. O-O e6 7. Nbd2 c4 8. c3 b5 9. b3 Ba3 10. bxc4 Bb2 11. cxb5 Bxa1 12. bxc6 Bxc3 13. c7 Qe7 14. Qa4 Nd7 15. Qc6 Rc8 16. Ba6 Bxd2 17. Bxc8 e5 18. Bxd7 Bxd7 19. c8=Q

Look at that b-pawn!

[stevencarr]

At last it can be told...

The first 9 moves were 1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Bg5 Bxe4 4. d5 Nf6 5. Nc3 Bf5 6. Qf3 Bg4 7. Qf4 Bh5 8. Bxf6 exf6 9. g4 Bg6

Notice the large number of moves with the c8-Bishop.

The full game is at http://from150to200.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... und-4.html

[Roger de Coverly]

The first 9 moves were 1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Bg5 Bxe4 4. d5 Nf6 5. Nc3 Bf5 6. Qf3 Bg4 7. Qf4 Bh5 8. Bxf6 exf6 9. g4 Bg6

If you look at just the first 4 moves, you are in novelty territory. There was a 4NCL game in 2010 where Mark Page chose 4. .. h6 against Felix Buchkremer which has the merit of avoiding the Bishop chase.

As one might expect, more conventional third moves that defend the e pawn are considered to give White a small advantage.

[stevencarr]

Somebody else played 3 Bg5?

What on earth was he thinking of?

What did his team-mates think of it?

At least I was playing in an individual competition, and regarded it as a bit of training.