Persistent Infringements

[Mick Norris]

Less than 40 years is nowt

[Mike Truran]

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1931

Jarndyce v Jarndyce:

Jarndyce and Jarndyce drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated, that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least; but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes, without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable young people have married into it; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Jarndyce and Jarndyce, without knowing how or why; whole families have inherited legendary hatreds with the suit. The little plaintiff or defendant, who was promised a new rocking-horse when Jarndyce and Jarndyce should be settled, has grown up, possessed himself of a real horse, and trotted away into the other world. Fair wards of court have faded into mothers and grandmothers; a long procession of Chancellors has come in and gone out; the legion of bills in the suit have been transformed into mere bills of mortality; there are not three Jarndyces left upon the earth perhaps, since old Tom Jarndyce in despair blew his brains out at a coffee-house in Chancery Lane; but Jarndyce and Jarndyce still drags its dreary length before the Court, perennially hopeless.

Sorry - the entire thread has been derailed. Professor Robertson, I blame you for planting the seed.

[Stewart Reuben]

Of course, if somebody infringes the rules three times in the same manner, both he and his opponent can claim a draw on repetition.

[Michael Farthing]

The soundest piece of advice in this thread so far, Stewart.

[Joey Stewart]

So if I am losing, all I need to do is refuse to score three times in a row and I have got myself a free draw? Or was that bit of "advice" only good on the day you wrote it?

[Brian Towers]

So if I am losing, all I need to do is refuse to score three times in a row and I have got myself a free draw?

I think scoring infringements are like illegal draw offers. They are only illegal if the opponent complains to the arbiter. You can't self report and, of course, if there is no arbiter then you're completely stuck.

[Stewart Reuben]

I think some people may have overlooked the date on which I gave advice about claiming draws by infringing the Laws three times.

[Martin Benjamin]

In evening league chess matches (no arbiters present), I have recently had two occasions to request that my opponent keep their score sheet up to date (each time with more than 5 minutes remaining). I never mentioned it straight away, but during the game after 2-3 moves without a move being recorded, then I made my next move and before stopping my own clock, politely requested that my opponent keep their score sheet up to date and offered my own score sheet for reference if required.

On the first occasion my opponent acknowledged my request and updated his score sheet but then went on to repeat the 'infringement' several times. Each time, I had to repeat my request.

On the second, more recent occasion, my opponent declined to record moves beyond around move 20, despite several requests and even a reminder that the rules required him to keep his score sheet up to date.

So my question(s);
(a) Other than repeatedly requesting my opponent keep their score sheet up to date, what recourse, if any, do I have in such situations?
(b) What would you do in the same position?

Regards

Ken

Going back to Ken's original question, this happened to me in a club match this season, and in answer to question (b), I ignored the infringement. It was the last game to finish, the match was all square, I was short of time, and my opponent was concealing his scoresheet so that I could not use it to check when we had reached the first time control (I was still writing down the moves). I suppose I could have objected. However, where possible I adopt a Botvinnik type approach (concentrate on the game and don't be distracted by something off the board) and although one of my team mates started to object, I just said to him (my team mate) "Don't worry about it" and kept on playing. I had a winning position anyway, and I successfully brought home the full the point, but I think I would have done the same thing irrespective of the position. In this case, my opponent seemed a decent bloke, and although an experienced player graded about 180 ECF, I think he just did not know he was not allowed to conceal his scoresheet, so I didn't want to make a fuss. I also think raising an objection in such circumstances is likely to distract me. As for question (a), I suspect it has already been answered in this thread by more learned chess folk, but in most leagues captains act as arbiters, so one would have to appeal to them, I suppose. I can only think of two occasions in over 40 years when an infringement has been so bad that I have had to ask an opponent to desist. The first was someone who was deliberately straddling pieces across two squares at the end of a rapidplay (culminating in him attempting to play Kc1 takes my queen on e3, claiming his king was on c2!) and the second was a strong player (over 220 ECF at the time) who started to push and shove the board rhythmically to and fro about six inches in each direction in my time trouble. When I politely asked him to stop, he claimed that it was in retaliation for some injustice committed on another board in the match, although I suspect he was piqued that he stood a little worse against me and was in danger of losing a lot of grading points (I was about 190 ECF at the time) - a draw in the end. Ultimately, in terms of question (a) in an evening league match, once you have involved the captains, there is nothing else you can do, unless you are determined to make a case to a league committee - and you have to ask yourself whether it matters that much, which is a personal decision.

[Stewart Reuben]

Martin Benjamin >I think he just did not know he was not allowed to conceal his scoresheet<

He is not allowed to conceal his scoresheet from the arbiter. He is fully entitled to conceal the number of moves made from his opponent. Indeed there have been occasions where a player has indicated that the opponent has reached the time control then, when the opponent allowed his flag to fall, claimed the game as the reality was that the scoresheet had been filled in incorrectly.
I am told that Karpov was once on an Appeal Committee and was very distressed at this sharp practice. e.g. leaving out the bottom space in the first column of the scoresheet. I was the arbiter at the Lloyds Bank Masters and David Norwood sat and thought about his 41st move because his opponent's scoresheet showed he had played 40 moves. David's flg fell and I immediately forfeited him as I knew he had played only 39. David was upset and thought his oponent had indulged in sharp practice, but I thought it may have been a genuine error.

>attempting to play Kc1 takes my queen on e3, claiming his king was on c2!)<
Wow! moving the king like a knight eh!

[David Sedgwick]

He is not allowed to conceal his scoresheet from the arbiter. He is fully entitled to conceal the number of moves made from his opponent.

The late Tony Miles used to cover up his intended move with his watch. When the Laws changed so that the scoresheet had to be visible to the arbiter, he altered his practice and put his watch at the top of the scoresheet. Thus the arbiter could see the scoresheet, but his opponent could not.

That was of course before the subsequent change to the Laws which outlawed writing down the move before making it.