The Death of League Chess?

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Mike Truran
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:15 pm

Neill

That's excellent news, but my original question was really raising the question of what to my mind is a potential disconnect between junior chess (whether at primary or secondary level) and local league chess. However flourishing the junior scene may or may not be, I just don't see that many teenagers playing for non-school clubs in the Oxfordshire League (apart from in the four clubs I mentioned earlier). Twenty-somethings are also pretty thin on the ground.

If what I'm seeing at local level is replicated across the country, I'm raising the question as to whether the days of local league chess may be numbered - and if that is true, what (if anything) can be done to reverse the trend.

David Williams
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by David Williams » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:44 pm

I suspect that persuading young people to play league chess is about as likely as persuading them that it is better to use a red phone box than a mobile.

Alan Walton
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:52 pm

The main problem is that a junior turns up to a club and unless there are other juniors to keep them company, they will lose interest.

One of the things about 3Cs is that all of us grow up together and remain friends, even when younger players come through we all stay committed to the cause (this is win everything possible and put everything you have learnt back into the club)

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:54 pm

And yet the tabletop gaming world has no problem attracting young adults. At 35, I'm one of the youngest at my chess club; I'm probably over the average age for my board game club. What are tabletop games clubs doing that we aren't?

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:27 pm

I think it's important to remember that secondary school pupils are worked far harder at school than they were thirty odd years ago, particularly those of academic ability. That's the first problem. The second is that a lot of secondary schools don't have any internal structure that encourages chess within the school.

Harrogate has seven secondary schools; one independant and six comprehensives plus a private girls only school. I did some digging a couple of years ago and noticed that the majority of them mentioned chess clubs on their website. As secretary of Harrogate Chess Club I wrote to all the schools inviting the chess club organiser to meet with us; I had one response which wasn't from one of the schools I was expecting one from. The teacher attended and seemed enthusiastic but never answered subsequent emails.
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David Pardoe
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by David Pardoe » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:30 pm

Alan, Jack...
I guess we`re fighting a tricky battle.. On the one hand, activities like Bridge seem to be holding there own.
For chess, a special `Fisher factor` needs to be included.
In todays age, the great social activity seems to be `tweeting`, etc... so key is how you appeal when there are so many other activities competing for peoples time, including work/domestic issues...and football (by which I mean Sky TV bombarding joe public with over paid clowns kicking a ball, diving, shirt pulling, etc... all in a desperate battle to avoid relegation (...and the sack, in the case of managers).

Have we become a nation of arm chair spectators, (or watching down the local pub..), hooked on these TV soaps... nothing to match the experience of actually attending these events, of course.... and soaking up the atmosphere, seeing the action `live`.

Similarly for chess...its a game to be actively played...a really good value participation sport.
How do we get this message out to joe public...

So, it`s not surprising that many chess players turn to online options/flavours.. in todays `convenience` society.
In short, we need to find ways of marketing our product. It starts with good marketing and promotion, and finding enthusiastic volunteers to man our clubs, leagues, and other chess bodies. Chess has a lot to offer.
BRING BACK THE BCF

Mike Truran
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:37 pm

For heaven's sake David, can't you stick to the point? I'm asking a specific question about the disconnect between junior chess and local league chess. The question is hard enough to answer without you rambling off into the distance with a series of generalised platitudes.

Let me make it easy for you:

1. Junior players are rarely to be found playing in local league chess.

2. Junior players are often to be found playing in weekend congresses, the 4NCL, the LCC etc.

3. Why is that?

4. Can anything be done about it?

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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:38 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:I would personally prefer money spent on both junior and school chess than wasted on the Olympiad team and appearance fees which do little in the long term.
Just picking up on Carl's point as I think the solution may lie here. I disagree with those who don't want their membership fees spent on international chess as international chess is important to the image of the national game. The problem is that with international events such as the Olympiad the requirements and associated costs are known and can be budgeted for. There is no infrastructure for investment in the game at the amateur level and no directorship really covers league and club chess - if anything it sits under the Home Director whose priority is managing the three major events (the British Championship, the County Champs and the National Club champs) that the ECF currently runs.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:40 pm

Mike Truran wrote:For heaven's sake David, can't you stick to the point? I'm asking a specific question about the disconnect between junior chess and local league chess. The question is hard enough to answer without you rambling off into the distance with a series of generalised platitudes.

Let me make it easy for you:

1. Junior players are rarely to be found playing in local league chess.

2. Junior players are often to be found playing in weekend congresses, the 4NCL, the LCC etc.

3. Why is that?

4. Can anything be done about it?
Perhaps we should canvass young players in the 4NCL as to how they came to take up the game and whether they would play local league chess if they had the opportunity.
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Mike Truran
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:45 pm

Not a bad idea. We could maybe do the same with the J4NCL and some of Neill's junior events?

Now that might be a research area where the ECF could add a bit of value? :idea: :idea: :idea:

David Pardoe
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by David Pardoe » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:10 pm

Mike Truran wrote:For heaven's sake David, can't you stick to the point? I'm asking a specific question about the disconnect between junior chess and local league chess. The question is hard enough to answer without you rambling off into the distance with a series of generalised platitudes.

Let me make it easy for you:

1. Junior players are rarely to be found playing in local league chess.

2. Junior players are often to be found playing in weekend congresses, the 4NCL, the LCC etc.

3. Why is that?

4. Can anything be done about it?
Mike..
I was addressing the subject in your heading ..`death of league chess`... Is it really dead..? maybe in slight decline.. in some areas.
There are many possible explainations for the decline...
And note, there are reasons why a number of players don't play league chess.... and its not restricted to juniors.
I`m guessing that most juniors who play 4NCL and Congress chess also play League chess... but I might be quite wrong..
There are a number of barriers to juniors, not least, many clubs aren't geared up to taking juniors....and many may not feel they want the responsibility of looking after these juniors..
3Cs demonstrates that a specialist well run junior club can make a significant impact at the highest levels..
BRING BACK THE BCF

David Robertson

Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by David Robertson » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:52 pm

Gawd! No wonder nothing gets done.

When someone raises a problem, we not only can't agree on a solution, we can't even agree on the problem. And if we were to agree on the problem, we'd still be left with David Pardoe's problem - for which there is only one solution.

Alan Walton
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:54 pm

Dave,

League chess is in decline, just look at the Manchester League, over my playing career (30 years or so) the league has gone from 7 division of 7 player teams, to just 3/4. The Rochdale & Bolton league have nearly disappeared, the Summer league is a joke, so how can you say its in slight decline. 3Cs have continue in exactly the same way over that time it is the other clubs who have took their eye off the ball.

Richard Bates
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:06 pm

Alan Walton wrote:Dave,

League chess is in decline, just look at the Manchester League, over my playing career (30 years or so) the league has gone from 7 division of 7 player teams, to just 3/4. The Rochdale & Bolton league have nearly disappeared, the Summer league is a joke, so how can you say its in slight decline. 3Cs have continue in exactly the same way over that time it is the other clubs who have took their eye off the ball.
Is that an indication that League chess is in decline, or that chess is in decline? (and/or retreat to a pre-English chess explosion state)

ie. is a reduction in League chess exceptional, or simply a corollary to a reduction in the amount of chess played across the board (no pun intended) - weekend chess, county chess, weekday inclusive tournament chess etc.

Alan Walton
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:36 pm

I would say the local game is decreasing in size, the national game at the higher levels is pretty much the same I have known it

But the problem would be if the local game disappears eventually it must affect the whole of the chess scene

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