Congresses Start Too Early In The Morning

[Joey Stewart]

I really dont understand why so many weekenders start at the antisocial times of 10am or earlier - surely it is well known that chess players tend to be night owls and not suited to mornings, and yet time and time again I see the early start times and instantly discount playing in them (especially on sundays when public transport has not even woken up).

Notice how many players enter big events like 4ncl and the british, despite the cost of playing being significantly higher then the average weekender? It is undoubtedly because they have sensible start times for the rounds, and a good many organisers could learn from their example.

[MartinCarpenter]

You'd like bridge congresses! Starts before midday are rare. Doesn't make for early finishes of course

The Sunday morning round/public transport can definitely be a distinct deterrent.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

How is it "well known that chess players tend to be night owls".
And how is an 11am Sunday start in the 4NCL so much better than a 10am Saturday start? The travel times?

[MartinCarpenter]

I know why the 4NCL does 11am, but is it just me who doesn't really like the idea of an 11am start and a potential 5+ hour game?

[Roger de Coverly]

(especially on sundays when public transport has not even woken up).

If it's a local Congress, then perhaps. Otherwise if you are travelling by public transport and staying over for a weekend event, a scheduled earlier finish time on Sunday afternoon or evening is an advantage as you may still be able to get connections home rather than having to stay over until Monday.

Especially with increments, the later the morning start, the later the evening finish.

So round times of 10 am and 3 pm become round times of 11 am and 4 pm With 90 30 games sometimes lasting more than 5 hours, you could be playing past 9 pm.

[Joey Stewart]

How is it "well known that chess players tend to be night owls".
And how is an 11am Sunday start in the 4NCL so much better than a 10am Saturday start? The travel times?

I like 4ncl because I usually stay at the hotel and it gives opportunity to be sociable with the team and stay up late without jeopardising the morning game by being over tired. I could probably live with a 10am start there too, but 11 helps to stagger the breakfast rush and gives time to get a little more woken away before the game. Getting home is rarely an issue as there is only one game to play and it is unlikely to go on later then 4pm so you can still make it home by early evening.


Starting games at 10 or earlier means getting up at the crack and has the knock on effect that you are falling asleep in the second game - that extra hour is a big thing

[Roger de Coverly]

Starting games at 10 or earlier means getting up at the crack and has the knock on effect that you are falling asleep in the second game - that extra hour is a big thing

Congresses have a delicate balancing act with Friday evening play, session length, number of rounds on Saturday, increment or quickplay finish all contributing to the decision on start times. Personally I consider 10 am completely acceptable, 9:30 am just about all right and 9 am, forget it. If there's a late night game the previous evening, a later start the next morning is better.

For those driving to Congresses, the Friday evening round is the nightmare, Saturday usually OK if you don't go too near shopping centres and Sunday almost traffic free.

The London Classic FIDE Open is unusual with its start time of 4:30 pm daily and five hour sessions with increments. Is it afternoon or evening play?

[MJMcCready]

I really dont understand why so many weekenders start at the antisocial times of 10am or earlier - surely it is well known that chess players tend to be night owls and not suited to mornings, and yet time and time again I see the early start times and instantly discount playing in them (especially on sundays when public transport has not even woken up).

Notice how many players enter big events like 4ncl and the british, despite the cost of playing being significantly higher then the average weekender? It is undoubtedly because they have sensible start times for the rounds, and a good many organisers could learn from their example.

If I play early morning its because I have to play another game that day. Then either I am too tired to play the second game or -foreseeing this- don't play at 100% in the first game. In both cases I under-perform. I always though the idea of getting up early to play chess is wrong on so many levels.

[Brian Towers]

Starting games at 10 or earlier means getting up at the crack and has the knock on effect that you are falling asleep in the second game - that extra hour is a big thing

But you're just a youngster. Not even 35! Spare a thought for us over 60's who are used to an afternoon nap after their lunch regardless of what time we played in the morning.

[Reg Clucas]

Starting games at 10 or earlier means getting up at the crack and has the knock on effect that you are falling asleep in the second game - that extra hour is a big thing

As one who has great problems with afternoon drowsiness, if there are two rounds in a day then the earlier they start the better as far as I am concerned. I think 10 o'clock is a bit too late, but is a reasonable compromise to accommodate those who have to travel.

[Stewart Reuben]

If you are playing in a one game a day international tournment, starting at 2.30pm is quite normal in Britain. But not in Spain where a 5pm start is quite standard. Karpov couldn't understand why, in the 1980s, I scheduled top level events for a 1pm start. He would have preferred 5pm. It was because, in those days, finishing at 6pm meant the event would be covered in the following day's newspaper. Once the chess columnists started their columns a day in arrears, the time moved to 2.30pm.
If you have 3 rounds on Saturday, now quite rare, then: 9am-1pm, 2-6pm, 7-11pm seems quite sensible.
Where you have two rounds in a day, whether because you played on tournament in the morning and a different one in the afternoon, or because it is a 2 games a day tournament, then flexiibility is possible.
Thus Gibraltar morning now at 9.45am and afternoon 3pm. When I ran it, the schedule was 10am and 3pm. That was to enable Spaniards to get to the hotel in time. The 3pm I chose as a compromisie between Spanish and British culture,
Initially when I organised the British Chess Championships, morning rounds started at 9am. I changed that to 9.30am when I realised many seaside hotels didn't servve breakfast early enough. The afternoon round started quite late. When I moved it 15 minutes earlier, Press Association thanked me for making their lives easier.
If you want ,ost players to stay in the hotel, you are likely to start the morning round earlier.
So there are many matters to consider.
What I LOATH is the common practice internationally for one round per day events, to start every round at say 2pm and then the last at 9am. This is very, very bad for players' biorhythms and results in awful play. The purpose is to get the prizegiving conveniently arranged and to allow people to travel home on the last day, without having to pay an extra nights accommodation.

[Alex McFarlane]

Another reason congresses start so early could be cost/availability.

I know of one venue which is impossible to hire after 6.30pm on a Sunday (and even then only if the caretaker is willing). This is an otherwise popular venue because of its catering and adjacent swimming pool.

I have also been quoted prices which for a Sunday after 6pm are 6 times the standard price per hour. 4.5 times the standard price is quite common. Saturday evenings being twice the Saturday afternoon cost is a frequent charge.

For congresses with a limited budget it might be impossible to take the financial risk of gaining a few more entries because of the later start (and remember you might also lose some entries because they couldn't travel home late on a Sunday.)

[Roger de Coverly]

If you have 3 rounds on Saturday, now quite rare, then: 9am-1pm, 2-6pm, 7-11pm seems quite sensible.

It's by no means rare, with many Congresses in the SCCU area following that format. For those travelling to and from home by car to a Congress, Friday evening rounds can be a congestion nightmare.

What the Saturday three round Congresses have done, is to reduce their round times so that the session length is three and a half hours or less. Kidlington, last weekend, uses round times of 9:30 am , 2:00 pm and 6:30 pm with a move rate of all moves in 90 minutes with 15 second increments. A potential 11 pm finish followed by up to an hour's journey and another hour back again for a 9 am start is that bit too much.

St Alban's in April uses a 36 in 90 plus 15 move rate and start times of 10 am 2:30 pm and 6:30 pm on the Saturday and 10 am and 2:30 on the Sunday.

The summer Weald tournament near Gatwick has a move rate of 80 10 with round times on the Saturday of 10 am 1:30 pm and 4 pm and on the Sunday of 9:30 am and 2 pm.

Other tournaments that spring to mind of this format are the EACU based ones in Bury St Edmunds and Newmarket.

I could not see any of these Congresses being FIDE rated unless FIDE allowed Open events of a shorter duration than 4 hours to be rated. In London, Adam Raoof runs a series of five round, two day rated events, but restricts entries to U-2200, thus enabling a 60 30 time control to be employed.

3 rounds on a Saturday is commonplace, what has disappeared is session lengths of four hours or more combined with 3 rounds.

[Adam Raoof]

I try not to start any event before 10.30am. I do that mainly for the convenience of those travelling, but also for my own benefit! At Hampstead we also start the Sunday rounds half an hour later for the same reasons.

At Southend we have tried to modernise the time control and shorten the gaps between rounds so that players don't have to hang around for hours between rounds and they can get away earlier than in previous years after their games have finished. This definitely encourages more entries from commuters and those travelling by train not intending to stay overnight.

[Nick Grey]

The organisers go for the best they can. I think Fri nights stopped 25 years ago, & move towards 2 games a day maximum since push towards FIDE.
Even with 3 games there is a push to players opting for 1/2 point bye. Maybe we are all a lot older & need more rest.

Travel is a lot worse in this part of the world than it has ever been from Fri lunchtime even going into Mon morning rush hour. Some of that may be to deal with constant works for trying to deal with capacity issues. But with 24 hour soon who knows whether we get venues opening that long.

Personally looking for a congress - nice scenery for 4-6 hours hill walking, 4-6 hours chess. Breakfast/lunch/evening in Hampstead can be nice.

But with the flooding etc am getting offers such as why not spend a week helping us fix the fells, that's after many have spent the previous 6 months supporting the earthquakes in the Himalayas.

Not really looking forward to spending a week or two in Uni accommodation - not fair on the better half. Even a nice hotel on the coast not enticing if half the day is tied up with chess. It is a bit of a shame because the organisers/hoteliers also try to encourage this with good offers.