4NCL Online

[Brian Valentine]

I'm sure this topic must have been worked to death elsewhere but, when I've managed an OTB 4NCL team, it has almost always been the case that the conversions resulting from the {7.5 x ECF} + 700 formula result, at any rate for those below ELO2000, in higher [sometimes significantly higher] figures than the actual FIDE ratings. In the case of juniors, my experience has been that the difference is even greater than for adults.

The current formula was based on work in 2014 and was reviewed in 2017. I've had a quick look at the latest position and have to accept Roger's assertion. it looks as though the gradient has got steeper over time (there was a smaller shift in 2017) and on the latest lists over 80% of the conversions are as Roger sets out.

When I get a gap in monthly grading work, I'll check my latest calculations, think some more about why this trend might be happening and what conclusions should be made.

Brian Valentine
Manager of ECF grading

[Roger Lancaster]

Interesting - and good of you to reply so promptly and fully, Brian.

[Roger de Coverly]

When I get a gap in monthly grading work, I'll check my latest calculations, think some more about why this trend might be happening and what conclusions should be made.

When the ECF adopted the policy of treating juniors as new players, that did away with the problem of juniors with published 150 grades being strong enough to win Opens, or published 100 grades able to win Majors. The almost parallel FIDE change of doubling the K factor isn't nearly so effective particularly for those not playing a lot of FIDE rate chess.

As far as veterans are concerned, you may find that those who only compete in senior events or those featuring very few juniors have retained their FIDE ratings at a higher level than those playing in Opens with a wide field.

[Andy Stoker]

Not NCL-specific - but don't want to start a new thread. I had left off online chess until this weekend - was a regular at chess.com. However, I now find I cannot connect to either chess.com ("Cannot connect because of your internet connection..") or LiChess (try to start a game but just get a whirling symbol). I have no difficulty with anything else - eg using Zoom frequently. Any advice?

[Adam Raoof]

Not NCL-specific - but don't want to start a new thread. I had left off online chess until this weekend - was a regular at chess.com. However, I now find I cannot connect to either chess.com ("Cannot connect because of your internet connection..") or LiChess (try to start a game but just get a whirling symbol). I have no difficulty with anything else - eg using Zoom frequently. Any advice?

Assuming you have no internet issues, make sure you are not logged into either of these sites on any other devices, clear your cache and try again. Do not use a phone use a laptop or desktop. Log out and log back in to the site. Use another browser to test your account.

Let me know if this helps!

The other issue is that both sites have had problems with server load due to their popularity. Occasionally they have to upgrade and reboot the server, at the moment it seems more frequent.

[MartinCarpenter]

I was being firewalled out of LiChess by my auto configured router, so it might be that?!

[Adam Raoof]

I was being firewalled out of LiChess by my auto configured router, so it might be that?!

Yes, if it identifies these sites as a security risk. I guess there is a way to add them to a list of approved sites on your firewall. If you have AVG it can be a real pain...

[Andy Stoker]

Many thanks for the prompt reply, Adam.
I've tried all you suggest - cleared browsing data, cookies etc
Used Chrome, Edge, IE
Failed with all .... I'll keep on trying at other times

[Andy Stoker]

Ah ha! On chess.com, I randomly changed the "connect" detail to the last option (cannot find it again to explain what it was!) - and I got in. Hoorah Looking forward to playing in some of the events being organised.
Thank you again for the help

[MartinCarpenter]

I was being firewalled out of LiChess by my auto configured router, so it might be that?!

Yes, if it identifies these sites as a security risk. I guess there is a way to add them to a list of approved sites on your firewall. If you have AVG it can be a real pain...

It was blocking lichess due to it being considered an online gaming site. Also a few other daft websites. Not a well configured thing, but easy to put in overrides once aware.

[Adam Raoof]

I was being firewalled out of LiChess by my auto configured router, so it might be that?!

Yes, if it identifies these sites as a security risk. I guess there is a way to add them to a list of approved sites on your firewall. If you have AVG it can be a real pain...

It was blocking lichess due to it being considered an online gaming site. Also a few other daft websites. Not a well configured thing, but easy to put in overrides once aware.

Annoyingly this happens to me quite often, when running events in public venue like a church and using the wifi to check chess results dot com! That is also identified as a gaming site ;-(

[Andy Stoker]

Successful accessing chess.com now - but still struggling - with LiChess. I seem to get on the site OK but cannot start a game... I'm logged in - it displays my user name - but I am unable to play a game. If I try to play against the computer, I move a pawn but it does not register on the scoresheet .... after a few seconds, the computer moves the pawn back to where it was.

[Brian Valentine]

I'm sure this topic must have been worked to death elsewhere but, when I've managed an OTB 4NCL team, it has almost always been the case that the conversions resulting from the {7.5 x ECF} + 700 formula result, at any rate for those below ELO2000, in higher [sometimes significantly higher] figures than the actual FIDE ratings. In the case of juniors, my experience has been that the difference is even greater than for adults.

The current formula was based on work in 2014 and was reviewed in 2017. I've had a quick look at the latest position and have to accept Roger's assertion. it looks as though the gradient has got steeper over time (there was a smaller shift in 2017) and on the latest lists over 80% of the conversions are as Roger sets out.

When I get a gap in monthly grading work, I'll check my latest calculations, think some more about why this trend might be happening and what conclusions should be made.

Brian Valentine
Manager of ECF grading

Sorry for an off topic entry, but I thought I would set out my preliminary findings. I have compared the grades/ratings in the first investigation with the current situation. A lot depends on which players one samples; to try and get rid of some of the obvious distortions I have selected seniors in both lists. These lists are of those with both a category A-E grade and a no inactive flag on the rating record. This applies separately for both lists.

There are 772 players on both lists. In the old list the means are 183/2066 updating to 184/2022 now.
There are 934 players only on the old list with means of 179/2031
These are replaced by 1371 only on the new list: means 175/1936

There appears to be a slow tectonic shift going on.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Quick question: I got an email about the online ECF ratings list, but am not on it as I've not played in any online ECF chess. So what is the deal with this and how does it relate to the "July grades" for those who are not likely to be playing any chess at the moment? (Also, are OTB and online chess ratings being mixed together here?)

[NickFaulks]

Not my field, but I shall leap in and say the answers are "not at all" and "no".