4NCL Online

[Nick Ivell]

Seems to indicate to me that cheating is rife in online chess, which is why I will always stick to OTB.

[MartinCarpenter]

- players should not use computer assistance in these competitions, because they will be caught"

I'd be interested to know how it is ensured that someone consulting an openings book, or following strong players' games, for as long as they could (i.e. until their opponent varied and there were no longer any books or previous games to follow) would be caught.

In a similar vein, how could tablebase use in an endgame be detected?

Individually? Very hard - I think they maybe try and use move timings or something weird but that seems a bit like black magic to me.

What could quite easily be done is a test of the collective population levels of theory/opening accuracy shown in the online 4NCL vs a normal weekend. That would give a fair idea of how real the problem, if any, is.

Ditto for endgame play I guess, although I doubt many people have table bases set up except within their engines. If someone is going to cheat with an engine, they're probably likely to do it rather earlier than the endgame....

[NickFaulks]

although I doubt many people have table bases set up except within their engines.

Actually no. The 7 man Lomonosov tablebase was one of the first apps I put on my phone, because I could not find a free version anywhere else.

[Richard Bates]

i suspect that circumstantial evidence on tablebase use in any tricky ending would potentially be a lot stronger than evidence on computer cheating at other stages of the game.

[NickFaulks]

i suspect that circumstantial evidence on tablebase use in any tricky ending would potentially be a lot stronger than evidence on computer cheating at other stages of the game.

Possibly so, but you will need entirely different methodology to deal with it.

[Adam Raoof]

I think this article is very relevant - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/youll-am ... -cordover/

[NickFaulks]

I think this article is very relevant - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/youll-am ... -cordover/

Yes, I looked at them a while ago and their approach does seem very sensible, maybe as good as it can get. Still not convinced, though.

[JustinHorton]

We all know people behave much worse online than in real life

This is generally but not universally true

[David Robertson]

A'way the lads. And so it starts... Geordies take their bat home

[John Foley]

There was a time when, if a team withdrew from a competition, its captain would politely apologise to the opposing team's captain for the inconvenience - arranging teams takes time and effort. The modern approach is to go straight to social media proclaiming a higher cause. I miss the old ways.

[Roger de Coverly]

There was a time when, if a team withdrew from a competition, its captain would politely apologise to the opposing team's captain for the inconvenience - arranging teams takes time and effort. The modern approach is to go straight to social media proclaiming a higher cause.

In the "old" days, players were not unilaterally banned.

I cannot in all conscience allow our players to play in a competition where they could be found guilty without evidence being provided, and they face a situation with no proper appeals procedure.

I suspect a number of players will agree with this.

[Ian Thompson]

I cannot in all conscience allow our players to play in a competition where they could be found guilty without evidence being provided, and they face a situation with no proper appeals procedure.

So the error was to enter the event in the first place as what's happened is in accordance with the rules.

[JustinHorton]

People have a reasonable expectation that they will be treated reasonably.

[NickFaulks]

People have a reasonable expectation that they will be treated reasonably.

Do they? I have absolutely no expectation that Microsoft or Google will treat me reasonably, but I take the easy path and use them anyway.

[JustinHorton]

Well if you're running a chess tournament and you don't think people do, don't be surprised when they don't play in the future. It's a practical point as much as an ethical one.