4NCL On-Line Congresses

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Neil Graham
Posts: 1469
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Neil Graham » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:49 pm

After three 4NCL On-Line Congresses and a 4th planned, it might be worthwhile looking at trends so far.

Numbers have consistently fallen away as follows: Totals : 1st 172 2nd 149 3rd 107

with a matching fall in each category

Open 59 ; 43; 22
Under 2000 41; 42; 31
Under 1700 72; 64; 54

With no OTB chess is there a reason? Perhaps one may be the preponderance of very young players so in the 3rd Congress - 8 out of 22 in the Open, 9 out of 31 in the Under 2000 and 23 out of 54 in the Under 1700 were 14 and Under. There were 31 who were Under 12 with the youngest aged 6 or 7 (dob 2013). When faced with players with Lichess names such as "TheJuniorProdigy" or "Dangerouskid" or "ThePro" and ratings clearly not reflecting their strength who sweep to victory in these events possibly the oldies might walk away in even larger numbers.

May I venture to suggest that the 4NCL try a Seniors Events for players over (say) 60 years next time round instead of the usual formula above?

Reg Clucas
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Reg Clucas » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:49 pm

With no OTB chess is there a reason?
Possibly because there are more alternative online events starting up.

Eric Gardiner
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:42 am
Location: Hull

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Eric Gardiner » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:31 am

Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Possibly because there are more alternative online events starting up.
I've stopped playing online (although not because of my age!) so can't really assess whether this is true. However the 4NCL Online congresses do charge an entry fee so if there are comparable tournaments that players can enter free of charge it wouldn't be surprising to see entries to the 4NCL Online congresses tailing off.

I also noticed that there was only one 2000+ rated player in the Open. It would be interesting to know whether higher rated players who entered the previous congresses have been deterred by their encounters with underrated juniors. I believe the 4NCL still use FIDE OTB ratings for seeding rather than any online ratings which might be now be more accurate for some players?

Neil Graham
Posts: 1469
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:55 am

Eric Gardiner wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:31 am
Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Possibly because there are more alternative online events starting up.
I've stopped playing online (although not because of my age!) so can't really assess whether this is true. However the 4NCL Online congresses do charge an entry fee so if there are comparable tournaments that players can enter free of charge it wouldn't be surprising to see entries to the 4NCL Online congresses tailing off.

I also noticed that there was only one 2000+ rated player in the Open. It would be interesting to know whether higher rated players who entered the previous congresses have been deterred by their encounters with underrated juniors. I believe the 4NCL still use FIDE OTB ratings for seeding rather than any online ratings which might be now be more accurate for some players?
The player who won the U2000 event has a FIDE rating of 1358, an ECF of 152 and a LIchess classical rating of 1964 (or 2101 Bullet).

His performance in the U2000 was rated at 2644. His Lichess account is notated "this player does not use computer assistance".

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:26 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:55 am
The player who won the U2000 event has a FIDE rating of 1358, an ECF of 152 and a LIchess classical rating of 1964 (or 2101 Bullet).

His performance in the U2000 was rated at 2644. His Lichess account is notated "this player does not use computer assistance".
A junior born in 2009 which makes the rating profile not uncommon.

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:37 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:55 am
Eric Gardiner wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:31 am
Reg Clucas wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Possibly because there are more alternative online events starting up.
I've stopped playing online (although not because of my age!) so can't really assess whether this is true. However the 4NCL Online congresses do charge an entry fee so if there are comparable tournaments that players can enter free of charge it wouldn't be surprising to see entries to the 4NCL Online congresses tailing off.

I also noticed that there was only one 2000+ rated player in the Open. It would be interesting to know whether higher rated players who entered the previous congresses have been deterred by their encounters with underrated juniors. I believe the 4NCL still use FIDE OTB ratings for seeding rather than any online ratings which might be now be more accurate for some players?
The player who won the U2000 event has a FIDE rating of 1358, an ECF of 152 and a LIchess classical rating of 1964 (or 2101 Bullet).

His performance in the U2000 was rated at 2644. His Lichess account is notated "this player does not use computer assistance".
The player is a reasonably good junior who has been active all the way through lockdown getting involved in a lot of online tournaments. I’m sure he just took his good form into a relatively weakened U2000 event.

I’d think the numbers are down in part because there was a fair bit of cheating going on in the early Congresses. The {name deleted by moderator} nonsense kind of set the tone a little! There were players who escaped bans but then were caught out later in events such as the Tera Final and the Glorney. Ironically I think the latest Congress was relatively clean, with perhaps some of the entrants being reformed cheats who have put their cheaty ways behind them. 😀
Last edited by IM Jack Rudd on Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Would prefer we tread cautiously when it comes to cheating cases

Andrew Zigmond
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Harrogate

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:02 pm

Some of the fall may also be down to the fact that some OTB play has started up. Obviously not competitive play/ congresses but it is possible to meet friends for friendly games in the pub which it wasn't before.

It may also be that some established players tried online events for want of anything else to do and found they didn't enjoy them.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Wadih Khoury » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:50 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:55 am


The player who won the U2000 event has a FIDE rating of 1358, an ECF of 152 and a LIchess classical rating of 1964 (or 2101 Bullet).

His performance in the U2000 was rated at 2644. His Lichess account is notated "this player does not use computer assistance".
Totally normal, and reflective of the sever lack of FIDE rated opportunities for juniors in the country. 150 players should be 1700-1900 Fide give or take, yet many are still around 1400.

Regarding the 4NCL, in my opinion, the organiser should use the highest of the Fide grade or the ECF conversion to determine section eligibility.

Andy Howie
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:32 pm

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Andy Howie » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:03 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:49 pm
After three 4NCL On-Line Congresses and a 4th planned, it might be worthwhile looking at trends so far.

Numbers have consistently fallen away as follows: Totals : 1st 172 2nd 149 3rd 107

with a matching fall in each category

Open 59 ; 43; 22
Under 2000 41; 42; 31
Under 1700 72; 64; 54

With no OTB chess is there a reason? Perhaps one may be the preponderance of very young players so in the 3rd Congress - 8 out of 22 in the Open, 9 out of 31 in the Under 2000 and 23 out of 54 in the Under 1700 were 14 and Under. There were 31 who were Under 12 with the youngest aged 6 or 7 (dob 2013). When faced with players with Lichess names such as "TheJuniorProdigy" or "Dangerouskid" or "ThePro" and ratings clearly not reflecting their strength who sweep to victory in these events possibly the oldies might walk away in even larger numbers.

May I venture to suggest that the 4NCL try a Seniors Events for players over (say) 60 years next time round instead of the usual formula above?
You have to also consider there are 2 4NCL Online Congresses on at the same time with the 7 rounder. A player may have been facing playing Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday (with an added Thursday if they are a junior). I suspect that may have led to lower numbers

Nick Grey
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: 4NCL On-Line Congresses

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:56 pm

Perhaps numbers down from watching sports or catching up on education. Or other online chess.

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