4NCL NORTHERN LEAGUE

[Peter Shaw]

This sounds like an excellent idea. I think there would be enough interested in Yorkshire to generate at least a couple of teams.

The Yorkshire Saturday league already avoids 4ncl weekends, so as long as 4ncl North was held on the same weekends as the existing 4ncl this wouldn't present a problem.

[Mike Truran]

Thanks for this Peter. Who in Yorkshire are the best people to contact? - or perhaps you could ask around to test interest?

Trefor - the 4NCL venues for 2010/2011 are already set, but there is nothing to stop us looking at them again after that. The advantage of Hinckley Island in particular though is that it is big enough to hold all three divisions, and venues of that size that are also willing to host the 4NCL on the right terms are not that easy to find.

[Mick Norris]

Thanks Mick and Bob - I'll pencil in two provisional teams! Would you two be the likely team organisers?

I don't know how far ahead the Woodhouse Cup in Yorkshire agrees its dates, but if the 4NCL Northern League were held on the same weekends as the rest of the 4NCL that should hopefully help with forward planning.

No, I've too much on - I've asked the MCF President to contact you, we'll find someone to organise the team

If you need help with venues then let me know, and I'd suggest you speak to Sean Hewitt too

[Peter Shaw]

Thanks for this Peter. Who in Yorkshire are the best people to contact? - or perhaps you could ask around to test interest?

Probably the White Rose captains Rupert Jones and Ihor Lewyk would be the best place to start. Also John Fozard, YCA webmaster and chairman of the Yorkshire Junior CA. I know he was considering entering a side in this seasons 4ncl.

[David Pardoe]

I`m not so convinced about having more `grade three` type chess events in the north, as suggested.
However, maybe if the current 4NCL were to include a couple of northern venues, that might serve the purpose...certainly if these venues catered for 4NCL div`s 2 & 3. If we had venues at say Sheffield, York, Nottingham, or Manchester, etc...that might prove helpful.
Also, I note the demise of one top flight 4NCL `northern team` recently...ie, North West Eagles. I note that several of the players of that team were actually based in the south. In fact many teams are made up of players from a variety of locations. And I also note that, although there are probably only a handful of northern teams, there are a number of northern based players who actually play in the 4NCL league, for a variety of teams. I therefore wonder how many other players there are who would actually want to play 4NCL, who are based in the North (in addition to those already playing..). Certainly North West Eagles could not find them....
The recent thread about the success of the Scarborough Congress raised a number of questions and points.
One point is about support for top level GMs at congresses. It seems hard to fund the prizes that would attract GM players to many of our congresses.......this is not good news for our UK top brass (nor British Chess) ......they appear to be almost forced to go abroad for there desired tournaments.
One interesting format that was tried in our region a few years ago was Mind Sports....unfortunately it moved south due to financial pressures, and some disappointing support....Some things could certainly have been improved, I`m sure.
Returning to this 4NCL proposal.....
Firstly, there are a good number of Northern congresses already running.....there is already questions about the support for some of these, and how it could be improved. I`ll mention two events coming shortly....the Bolton Rapidplay in mid November.... and the Preston Congress in late November, (moved from Preston Town Hall to the University of central Lancs).
Hopefully they will both recieve good support, and details are to be found on the ECF website (Calander..section).


One view I hold is that more targetted publicity might help...maybe including getting adverts in leading northern papers, like the Manchester Evening News, the Yorkshire Post, and others advertizing these events...and publishing reports and games/commentories.
Another aspect to bear in mind is county chess....we already struggle to raise teams for these events, and I would not like to see these platforms put under any more stress.
Together with the considerable level of league chess, and Rapidplay events (and junior chess...etc), I think the North probably has enough chess opportunities at this level to satisfy most of the demand....
It would be good if a really top rated event were to take place in the North, I think. Incidentally, it would be good if more northerly parts of England (and maybe Scotland), could participate more readily. Last years British event at Liverpool proved financially disappointing....what could be done to make such events, held in the north, more successful.
One post suggested they were not keen on a 4NCL event that might include teams from places like Newcastle....thats a bit disappointing...venues like Leeds or York would certainly attract Newcastle based interest, I would have thought.
Our recent MCF council meeting dismissed the idea (for now), of entering a 4NCL team.....I note however that 3Cs have re-entered this season...
In terms of priorities, I`d like to see more effort focused on boosting the current range of chess offerings in the North.
From a 4NCL perspective, I repeat...the addition of a couple of genuine northern venues I`m sure would be helpful.
On another tac....I do wonder if it might be beneficial to create some ties with an Hotel Group like the Hilton Group....they might be able to offer a wider range of hotel locations, possibly at more advantageous terms....and certainly offer good conferance type facilities. However, I`m sure the 4NCL organisors will keep such options under review.

[JamesMurphy]

I for one would definitely be interested in this. The cost of travelling to southern venues and having to stay overnight has always been an issue for me and as a result would prefer to save up and spend that money on a tournament instead.

However, if it were to come to the North then that would make attending 4NCL matches much much more feasible.

Why not have 4NCL North & South divisions for the lower leagues and the top leagues are a migration of the two. Similar with Premiership, Championship and Unibond league football where north / south divisions eventually filter in with each other.

[Mike Truran]

James, that may well be the ultimate outcome.

NB The 4NCL's economics (free playing space at the venues, income from bedroom booking commission etc) depend on players (not all of course, but a significant number) booking bedrooms (otherwise the venues would have no reason to offer us the preferential deals we get). However, since one of the major selling points of the 4NCL (and no doubt the 4NCL Northern League if it gets off the ground) is the socialising in the evening (and into the small hours!) on the Saturday night in particular, this would hopefully continue to be the case.

[benedgell]

Just throwing it out there, but I'm guessing a South West League, to make travelling easier for Cornwall, Devon etc teams, would be less viable?

[Mike Truran]

Ben, that would certainly be possible, although the fewer number of teams in the south west compared with the north might make it less viable. Also, Barcelo and De Vere don't have venues in the south west (apart from Barcelo Torquay, which because it gets so much tourist trade is less inclined to offer the 4NCL the usual deal) - although of course there is no reason why the 4NCL couldn't establish a relationship with another chain if it was felt that the demand was there.

[Joey Stewart]

I think this is a terrible idea, another example of the north trying to separate themselves from the rest of the country, the chess world is small and petty minded enough as it is without trying to introduce more division between us.

[William Metcalfe]

Joey how is this the north trying to seperate its the other way round this is a great way to get more players from the north to play in the 4ncl.With promotion to the B division more norther players will then have chance to play and meet there southern collegues.

[Joey Stewart]

Well they tried to do it in the past because they believed that they were better than the ecf and should make their own 'special' northern federation so there is a bit of a history of maverick attitudes already. I was just thinking that you get players come from Ireland, scotland, wales and even abroad to play in this prestigious league so if there are northeners who were keen enough to want to play I suspect they are already involved and those who want it brought to them are the slackers who are not committed enough to the game to make a big effort for.

[Peter Rhodes]

Hi Joey,

the proposal for a Northern/Southern 4NCL is only for the lower divisions, based on the football conference model (I believe).

Maybe even the main structure would be unchanged, and the Northern/Southern divisions would be in addition to what is already in place.

I only say this as I am uncertain if you realised this - which it would be easy to do if you arrived late to the thread.

[Ben Hague]

I think the center of gravity of the 4NCL has been gradually heading towards London for the last few years, so I don't think it's so much the north wanting to do its own thing, as it is the 4NCL leaving a vacuum, which it's now trying to fill.

Personally I'm not sure I really see the niche for this. It'd be a stand-alone league really as I'd assume no team would want promotion as they'd then have to play down south, and if they wanted to do that they could've entered already. You're not going to get the big names you do in the main 4NCL so you wouldn't have the same aura of it being something special. You're also competing with the Yorkshire League which is obviously well established.

I'd like to see it do well, and I'd probably be willing to play depending on how it's set up, but I feel it'll be a struggle to get it to take off.

[David Pardoe]

I quite agree your points Ben....and Alan Walton sent me a note along similar lines recently.
If the 4NCL could perhaps add Sheffield & Stoke to there list of venues, I`m sure that northern interests would feel suitably pleased.
Both locations have excellent Rail links, and I`m sure could provide very good quality venues.
At Stoke, for instance, there is the North Staffordshire Hotel, just outside Stoke Railway Station, which I`m sure has excellent facilities.
Another option might be for the `North` to set up a (10 board) northern `Inter-cities league`, maybe open to all locations north of Birmingham. If we could engage someone like say, the Hilton Group, we might have a Hilton Northern Intercities Classic......
I could well imagine that about 20 or more northern towns & cities/leagues could be attracted by such an event. Maybe supplimented by a `Knock-out` competition.
However, I would stress the need for `balance` here. There are already at least 25 good weekend Congresses + Rapidplays running in the North...and it is important that these are given plenty of support. Equally, we need to ensure the continued viability and growth of our counties chess.
I`ve suggested previously the idea of maybe setting up a Northern Congress circuit...whereby players could buy a block entry ticket that allows entry to all participating congresses for a fee of say £150 (which might include ECF membership, and operate something like an MO. If this included a couple of `Super tournaments`, where perhaps several GMs were invited, that would add some spice to the northern chess offerings..
Dont know if the ECF (or NCL..), chiefs/tournament organisors might give that some thought.