English Chess Forum

The 4NCL are currently looking at the feasibility of setting up a 4NCL Northern League. The aim of this would be to encourage northern-based teams which may currently be reluctant to commit to the travelling times to the 4NCL's existing venues. If your team would be interested in participating, perhaps you could contact me on 01993 708645 or [email protected] so that we can test what level of support we might get.

We would probably not have any particular difficulty sourcing northern venues of a similar quality to our existing venues using our existing 4NCL contacts. I would have thought that (as with the 4NCL at the start) we would be able to get going without too many teams.

The league would probably be along the following lines:

1. Similar format to existing 4NCL Div 3 (so six boards, no female player requirement, Swiss system, FIDE rated etc etc). Two matches a weekend as with 4NCL.
2. Rules, entry guidelines, entry fees etc the same as the 4NCL.
3. Promotion place(s) available to 4NCL Div 2 if a team wants to take it up - maybe pro-rate places vs existing Div 3 based on number of teams (eg say 30 teams in existing 4NCL Div 3, 10 teams in 4NCL Northern League would mean the existing 4 promotion places out of Div 3 into Div 2 would be split 3 Div 3, 1 Northern League).
4. Matches played on same weekends as rest of 4NCL (to avoid using up too many weekends).
5. Open to Scottish teams as well if they wanted to enter.

If successful, this might lead in due course to a regionalised 4NCL Div 3, split between north and south.

The 4NCL's website www.4ncl.co.uk gives more information on the 4NCL.

Mike

Where is the boundary between North and South? I.e. where would Birmingham fit into this?

Sounds like an excellent idea (he says, despite not having any northern connections except by birth).

Alex Holowczak wrote:Where is the boundary between North and South? I.e. where would Birmingham fit into this?

You might envisage teams given a choice. Given the options for Birmingham based players of playing in Daventry, Hinckley and Sunningdale against say Blackpool and Scarborough, you might expect them to select the southern option.

Alex/Roger, without having thought about it too deeply my instant view would be that we would probably let teams decide themselves which league they wanted to play in.

This has the potential to destroy the 4NCL....... Thats a 15 Yard penalty Facemask called on the Offence , Number 47 Truran ...

I think it makes loads of sense to have two division 3 sections, North and South with clubs able to enter either and promotion from either division.

The Football League had a Third Division North and Third Division South for many years. It didn't seem to do any harm to football, so I don't agree with Ben that it'll ruin it. It seems like a good way to increase participation, and reduce the number of people who say that travelling is a problem.

Would the venues for the First Division and Second Division be split between north and south venues, or exist solely in the south? It would be a shame for Third Division North teams to get promoted, only to not accept their place due to having to travel to the south a lot.

It would make sense for, on any given weekend, to split the venues as follows:
Southernmost venue - Div3 South
Northernmost venue - Div3 North
Remaining venue - Divs 1&2.

This might result in a Div 1/2 venue being deep into the South (say Wokefield Park and Sunningdale were in use on the same weekend) but overall, it should work out OK.

IM Jack Rudd wrote:It would make sense for, on any given weekend, to split the venues as follows:
Southernmost venue - Div3 South
Northernmost venue - Div3 North
Remaining venue - Divs 1&2.

This might result in a Div 1/2 venue being deep into the South (say Wokefield Park and Sunningdale were in use on the same weekend) but overall, it should work out OK.

Except that some 'clubs' have one team in division 1 or 2 and another in division 3 and may prefer either a single venue for those divisions or two venues which are close together.

Alex Holowczak wrote:The Football League had a Third Division North and Third Division South for many years. It didn't seem to do any harm to football, so I don't agree with Ben that it'll ruin it.

Indeed so.

Back in the day when I played in the Leicestershire League. The lower county divisions were also split between North and South.

Peter Rhodes wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote:The Football League had a Third Division North and Third Division South for many years. It didn't seem to do any harm to football, so I don't agree with Ben that it'll ruin it.

Indeed so.

Back in the day when I played in the Leicestershire League. The lower county divisions were also split between North and South.

The same is true of the Somerset League, although there the divisions are East and West.

4NCL North is a good idea - there is existing weekend chess in the Yorkshire league to consider, and Merseyside were discussing setting up something simliar a year ago

In Manchester, we have some players unavailable for evening chess in the league who could play at weekends, and I imagine some players who would do both - it has got to be worth a go

I think we can commit at least 1 MCF team if the idea gets off the ground - we have discussed the possibility of entering the 4NCL, but the distance to the southern venues has always been the stumbling block

Thanks Mick and Bob - I'll pencil in two provisional teams! Would you two be the likely team organisers?

I don't know how far ahead the Woodhouse Cup in Yorkshire agrees its dates, but if the 4NCL Northern League were held on the same weekends as the rest of the 4NCL that should hopefully help with forward planning.

If the Northern League takes off, and it sounds as though chess will benefit if it does, will the venues for the 'Southern' League be amended to make them more central for southern based teams?