And so starts the 31st season

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
LawrenceCooper
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jan 30, 2024 1:03 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:25 am
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:41 pm
Graham Borrowdale wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 1:10 pm


I do sometimes wonder what the going rate is for professional players (not expecting you to tell us, Lawrence!). In many fields (consultancy, legal advice, plumbing...) £300 per day would be good value. I guess it depends on how much the sponsors want to win (buy?) the league, since there is not really a financial business case to be made. I doubt we will be having FFP rules applied any time soon.
The players in my teams play for expenses only so I'm not the right captain to ask. Manx, Chessable, Cheddleton etc would be the ones in the know.
Is this new or subject to exceptions? I recall that Adams played in a recent season!
Yes, two seasons ago. That was very much the exception rather than the rule. I've been captain since 2016-17 and it's been expenses only in that time.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:23 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 6:50 pm
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:29 pm
I did deliberately exclude White Rose from my earlier list of title contenders, but the extent of their butchery by Wood Green Youth is still extraordinary. Willow looks likely to win and if memory serves, that would be two wins in two seasons for him against Rowson.
Being 5.5-0.5 up before settling for a 6-2 match win was beyond my wildest dreams.
15-year-old Can Durak has met all the requirements to make an IM title application. His norms came in the chessengland.com grandmaster festival in December 2023, Vandouevre & Budapest January 2024 and he also met the 2400 requirement during the the latter tournament. He is currently on 3.5/4 in this season's 4NCL.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Mar 20, 2024 3:18 pm

Taking this to be the first division thread, here is my analysis of the state of play.

And it is fairly positive!

The pairing system has worked better than last year, with more matches between equally matched teams spread over the season. Only this last weekend consisted of seeded teams beating weaker teams (and then some: 12-0) as opposed to three weekends largely of mismatches as of last year. If there has to be one weekend of mismatches - which there does, if you want two of out of three matches in the final weekend where the seeds play each other, and likewise the non-seeds - then you probably should indeed have it in Telford, which surely is the venue captains dread the most and where one might therefore want to host a weekend with relatively little at stake.

So far the disappointment of the season has been White Rose 1 and the positive package has been Alba, even after last weekend's massacre of the non-seeds. This has been helped in some regard by Alba's own win over White Rose 1, which is still the one victory of a non-seed over a seed (that part has not worked out so well but what can you do? It has not all been massacres, one might add; Oxford, though having lost all their matches, have twice lost only 4.5-3.5 to two seeded teams. And to two others, alas ...)

We have still have a three way fight for the title: Wood Green on 8/8 (including a win over Shark), Manx and Sharks on 7/8 (the Sharks having beaten Manx). The race tightened significantly in round seven when Manx, not exactly noted for piling on the gamepoints against weaker teams in the way that Guildford did, suddenly showed awareness of the table and made 7.5-0.5 against Celtic Tigers whilst Wood Green laboured to 5-3 over White Rose 2.This keeps Manx in the race, in so far as a conceivable 5-3 win over Wood Green in round ten might suffice, given they have perhaps easier opposition in the other matches (both teams play White Rose but Manx plays White Rose 2 while Wood Green plays against Blackthorne). But the real beneficiary from a Manx victory over Wood Green in round ten would be the Sharks, just one gamepoint behind Wood Green as it stands and thus liable to overtake them in that scenario, should they carry on winning. Who, indeed, would be incentivised to stop them? Well, they are yet to play Wood Green 2 ...

How common are (realistic) three way races for the title, going into the last weekend? Naturally, very uncommon. I might stand to be corrected regarding last season, which I did not follow too closely, but I would go back to 2000/1 and 2002/3. Yes, here comes the history bit.

2000/1 is the closest analogy. Again there was one team on 8/8 (Beeson Gregory, formerly Invicta Home House, etc) and two on 7/8 (Slough and Wood Green, Slough having won their direct encounter but having lost to Beeson), and so again the team on 8/8 (Beeson) had yet to play against perhaps the strongest team of all in the final weekend (Wood Green). But here Beeson had substantial gamepoints lead too, over both teams. and could afford to (and did) lose 3-5 to Wood Green in the last round. This year Wood Green cannot plan on having that luxury, unless perhaps the Sharks slip up against their second team in the meantime (they play in round nine).

In 2002/3 again there were three teams in these familiar position: Wood Green on 8/8 (having beaten Barbican) with Guildford and Barbican on 7/8 (Barbican having beaten Guildford). Again Wood Green had enough gamepoints in the bag to be able to lose to Guildford (in the event, it was drawn, and Barbican had lost ground by losing in round nine, which as mentioned, is the round of which the Sharks will be very wary).

On the whole I would still back Wood Green to win, but that is partly precisely because of the Sharks v Wood Green 2 obstacle, in addition to their own chances of avoiding defeat against Manx.

The relegation battle seems to be between five teams. Oxford are doomed, but might still play a role in deciding the fate of others when they play Barnet (ninth), and the teams in tenth and eleventh (White Rose 2 and Celtic Tigers) are playing each other and either might still hope to overtake Barnet. Blackthorne are not entirely safe, since they are due to play both White Rose 2 and Celtic Tigers, but just one draw from both these matches would surely suffice. This all sounds quite close but since round nine features Oxford v Barnet and Blackthorne v Celtic, it is also possible that everything will be quite clear by the end of the next Saturday.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:56 pm

You should write a history of the 4NCL! Or at least a retrospective. Was an opportunity missed with the 30th season? Will the league make it to 50 seasons? Which is the longest-running continuous national league? (I am going to guess the Bundesliga?)

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:23 pm

I had a go after the first ten seasons - it was published in KINGPIN, and included Jonathan Parker's fabulous win over Jonathan Levitt in Cardiff 1997 and Lawrence Trent's finish v Desmond Tan in May 2003, which made its way into Edward Winter's hall of curiosities.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Mar 20, 2024 9:40 pm

I will have to look those up. Thanks!

Mick Norris
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Mick Norris » Sun May 05, 2024 8:35 pm

Very tight at the top going into the final day
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Richard Bates
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Richard Bates » Sun May 05, 2024 8:49 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 8:35 pm
Very tight at the top going into the final day
Yep, nothing like the possibly closest three way final day ever to generate the, er, excitement on the ECForum. Guess it’s all been drowned out by the first Mickey Adams loss to a fellow English player in living memory.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun May 05, 2024 9:10 pm

Gawain Jones beat Mickey Adams in round 9, but Wood Green still won the match.

https://www.4nclresults.co.uk/2023-24/4ncl/9/1/export/

Then Manx Liberty beat Wood Green in round 10:

https://www.4nclresults.co.uk/2023-24/4ncl/10/1/export/

Which means going into round 11, the table shows:

https://www.4nclresults.co.uk/2023-24/m ... -div1.html

1. The Sharks 1 18 MP (55 GP)
2. Manx Liberty 18 MP (55 GP)
3. Wood Green 18 MP (54 GP)

Round 11 pairings:

11 Manx Liberty vs Chessable White Rose 1
12 Blackthorne vs Wood Green
13 Cheddleton vs The Sharks 1

Am I right that whoever wins their round 11 match by a cricket score will likely win Division 1?

FWIW, the opponents of the title-vying teams in this final round currently occupy places 5-7 in the table (with Wood Green Youth splitting the two groups), so it seems it is not a foregone conclusion.

Mick Norris
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Mick Norris » Sun May 05, 2024 9:20 pm

Wood Green on 54.5 GP, so only 0.5 in it

Not easy to see anyone winning by a large margin
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon May 06, 2024 9:24 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 9:20 pm
Wood Green on 54.5 GP, so only 0.5 in it

Not easy to see anyone winning by a large margin
If all three finish level on match and game points then Sharks have the edge in the head to head due to their 5-3 v Manx, compared to WG beating Sharks 4.5-3.5 & Manx beating WG 4.5-3.5.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon May 06, 2024 9:33 am

Board pairings for today:

Cheddleton 2407 The Sharks 1 2484
131 w Pert, Richard G i 2411 - Roberson, Peter T i 2485 e
132 b Clarke, Brandon G I i 2490 - Nasuta, Grzegorz g 2552
133 w Williams, Simon K g 2467 - Makkar, Rajat i 2452
134 b Kirk, Ezra i 2402 - Fernandez, Daniel Howard g 2528
135 w Boswell, Jacob Connor 2331 e - Ghasi, Ameet K i 2486
136 b Eggleston, David J i 2388 e - Slaby, Jerzy i 2465
137 w Arkell, Keith C g 2362 - Garcia Martin, Marta i 2420 e
138 b Steil-Antoni, Fiona wi 2156 e - Rendle, Thomas E i 2427 e

Manx Liberty 2582 Chessable White Rose 1 2427
111 w Shirov, Alexei g 2661 - Jones, Gawain C B g 2620
112 b Svane, Frederik g 2627 - Alsina Leal, Daniel g 2497
113 w Svane, Rasmus g 2627 - Rowson, Jonathan g 2527
114 b Erdos, Viktor g 2545 - Palliser, Richard J D i 2377
115 w Lupulescu, Constantin g 2589 - Camacho Collados, Jose i 2374
116 b Jaracz, Pawel g 2472 - Wall, Tim P f 2352 e
117 w Parligras, Mircea-Emilian g 2557 - Weller, Jean-Luc 2243 e
118 b Terbe, Julianna wi 2274 - Navrotescu, Andreea wg 2220

Blackthorne 2270 Wood Green 2551
121 w Ledger, Andrew J i 2365 e - Adams, Michael * g 2673
122 b Gormally, Daniel W g 2415 - Harvey, Marcus R i 2576 e
123 w Bates, Richard A i 2381 e - Murphy, Conor E i 2515 e
124 b Varney, Zoe wc 2171 e - Wadsworth, Matthew J i 2522 e
125 w Ledger, Dave J f 2211 - Speelman, Jon S g 2561 e
126 b Nelson, Jonathan P 2194 e - Turner, Matthew J g 2487 e
127 w Eames, Robert S f 2154 - Gasanov, Eldar g 2527 e
128 b Ledger, Stephen C 2124 e - Toma, Katarzyna wg 2365 e

Mick Norris
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Mick Norris » Mon May 06, 2024 5:55 pm

Sharks win 5-3, Manx win 5.5 -2.5, Wood Green win 6.5 - 1.5

Wood Green win with 61.5 GP from Manx with 61 and The Sharks with 60.5

Close finish, well done Wood Green
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon May 06, 2024 6:51 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon May 06, 2024 5:55 pm
Sharks win 5-3, Manx win 5.5 -2.5, Wood Green win 6.5 - 1.5

Wood Green win with 61.5 GP from Manx with 61 and The Sharks with 60.5

Close finish, well done Wood Green
Never in doubt :wink:

Mick Norris
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Re: And so starts the 31st season

Post by Mick Norris » Mon May 06, 2024 7:20 pm

:lol:
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