4NCL Northern - Round 7

[Sean Hewitt]

I think someone did the maths on another thread, but didnt we decide that Bradford's average opposition rating was very similar to the teams at the top of Division 3, and of course the Atticus average opposition rating will be higher because they had to play against Bradford.

Bob - I haven't analysed the maths. Averages can of course be skewed by facing very weak teams in R1 for example. However as div3 progresses the average rating of opposition will get higher for teams at the top of the pile as they play tougher and tougher opposition. This is not the case in the northern division.

For example, in their last match the average rating of opponent for the top 4 teams was

Bradford 1963
Atticus 2049
Brown Jack 2084
Wessex 2154

Hardly conclusive I know, and we'll see what happens in the final weekend. However I do believe that in future years the northern league needs more interaction with the mainstream div3 if it wants to have access to the promotion places. Of course, if it wants to be standalone that's ok too.

[David Pardoe]

I`m not sure that comparisions between the leagues are really helpful at this stage.
The Northern League has only just started and needs time to get more established, and hopefully more Northern teams will join next season. Hopefully more players will join existing teams to help them strengthen squads for next season.
A project like this needs at least a couple of seasons to establish itself, and I`d like to see more entries from north midlands areas, who could also benefit from the reduced travel. Maybe Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Notts teams will enter in addition to other northern teams. We`ll see....
I`m assuming that 4NCL organisors will be encouraging support from such areas, and it might be that some teams that currently travel `South` might consider entering a team in the northern section. They`d certainly be very welcome.

[Mike Truran]

They should certainly consider it if Sean is right!

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Apparantly play restarted shortly after I left the building

A number of boards were moved closer to windows, or into rooms with more natural light. Ten minutes or so later, the power came back. The delay due to bad light forced a change to the move rate. Instead of 40/2, 20/1, G/30 it became 40/2, G/60. This is whilst play is in progress !

Ah, so the power cut affected both hotels (not surprising, as both were in Daventry). My own game was in a room with windows, but on the wrong side of the room. It wasn't that dark, but I found the reduced light levels enough to affect my concentration, so when the option of moving next to a window in another room was offered, I took it. It was rather nice having a small room all to yourself (well, and your opponent), a view of golf being played outside the window, and no distractions from other boards. Sadly it didn't help, as I still lost.

[Alex Holowczak]

Ah, so the power cut affected both hotels (not surprising, as both were in Daventry).

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Division 3 was unaffected. We noticed a flicker, but that was about it.

[Sean Hewitt]

I`d like to see more entries from north midlands areas, who could also benefit from the reduced travel. Maybe Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Notts teams will enter in addition to other northern teams. We`ll see....

I doubt you'll get them as it would involve more travelling for such teams. We are Leicester / Nottingham based and considered but rejected it - even though we figured it would make promotion easier to achieve! For example, Nottingham to

Hinckley 41 miles
Daventry 57 miles
Sunningdale 138 miles

compare that to

Crewe 67 miles
Harrogate 87 miles
Darlington 126 miles

I`m not sure that comparisions between the leagues are really helpful at this stage..

The comparisons are necessary because if the 8 northern teams get an advantage that makes promotion easier than for the 36 teams in division 3, the division 3 teams are naturally going to say hang on, that's not right. No one objects to the northern league but, if it wants to compete with division 3 for promotion places to division 2 then it has to be on level terms.

We won't know for sure what advantage (if any) has been had until after the final weekend, but we at least need to consider the possibility and what options might be available for next season.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Ah, so the power cut affected both hotels (not surprising, as both were in Daventry).

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Division 3 was unaffected. We noticed a flicker, but that was about it.

Ah, I saw Lawrence was replying to Sean's query about Division 3 with "Nope, but there was little sign of anything after the power went off and bad light stopped play at about 12.30. Apparantly play restarted shortly after I left the building".

I had the impression that he had shuttled over to the other Daventry hotel to see what was going on (though doing that would be silly, now I think about it). He must have been talking about the division 1 match he was playing in. Did he leave the venue completely and lose his game by default??

Can I claim to being confused because this is the 4NCL Northern thread?

EDIT: Or maybe Lawrence wasn't playing at all?? I'm triply confused now.

[LozCooper]

Ah, so the power cut affected both hotels (not surprising, as both were in Daventry).

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Division 3 was unaffected. We noticed a flicker, but that was about it.

Ah, I saw Lawrence was replying to Sean's query about Division 3 with "Nope, but there was little sign of anything after the power went off and bad light stopped play at about 12.30. Apparantly play restarted shortly after I left the building".

I had the impression that he had shuttled over to the other Daventry hotel to see what was going on (though doing that would be silly, now I think about it). He must have been talking about the division 1 match he was playing in. Did he leave the venue completely and lose his game by default??

Can I claim to being confused because this is the 4NCL Northern thread?

EDIT: Or maybe Lawrence wasn't playing at all?? I'm triply confused now.

I haven't played a rated game of chess since January 2009 and that was in New Zealand

[Christopher Kreuzer]

The delay due to bad light forced a change to the move rate. Instead of 40/2, 20/1, G/30 it became 40/2, G/60. This is whilst play is in progress !

So how exactly did this work? Did anyone object to that? My game was delayed by about 30 minutes, as it moved into another room, but the time control stayed the same. I'm guessing in the main playing hall the room was a lot darker and more time was lost.

[Alan Walton]

The main playing ahll did lose approx 45 mins, about 30 mins before we got the 3 hour word, then about 15-30 mins to eventually move into the dining room area

[David Pardoe]

I`d like to see more entries from north midlands areas, who could also benefit from the reduced travel. Maybe Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Notts teams will enter in addition to other northern teams. We`ll see....

I doubt you'll get them as it would involve more travelling for such teams. We are Leicester / Nottingham based and considered but rejected it - even though we figured it would make promotion easier to achieve! For example, Nottingham to

Hinckley 41 miles
Daventry 57 miles
Sunningdale 138 miles

compare that to

Crewe 67 miles
Harrogate 87 miles
Darlington 126 miles

I`m not sure that comparisions between the leagues are really helpful at this stage..

The comparisons are necessary because if the 8 northern teams get an advantage that makes promotion easier than for the 36 teams in division 3, the division 3 teams are naturally going to say hang on, that's not right. No one objects to the northern league but, if it wants to compete with division 3 for promotion places to division 2 then it has to be on level terms.

We won't know for sure what advantage (if any) has been had until after the final weekend, but we at least need to consider the possibility and what options might be available for next season.

I guess when I said `North Midlands` I had a line roughly north of Stoke - Nottingham in mind.. But if a Leicester based team were to consider entering..fine. Certainly the trip to Darlington (Teesdale Valley), & Harrogate, up the M1 would be very straight forward..assuming Motorway and weather etc were ok.
If other teams did enter, then I`m sure some adjustments to venues might be considered, if this was thought necessary.
Also, its worth noting that, since we currently have two w/e`s at the Crewe DeVere`s venue, it would be quite practical for other teams from Staffordshire & Shropshire to consider entering teams.

We`ll see how things go at Hinckley...hopefully it will be a grand chess festival which all present will enjoy....and maybe we`re not too pre-occupied with promotion just at this point.
I`m sure there will be scope for discussions & if any Northern teams are in the running and keen to take a place in Div 2, that should be fine. They will then have the summer months to strengthen there squads if needs be. I notice that e2e4 have wasted no time in recruting stronger players this season.
In the light of further experience, I`m sure that some fine tuning could be done, if needs be...but I dont envisage any northern team standing in the way of signifcantly stronger Div 3 teams, if push comes to shove.

[Ian Kingston]

I doubt you'll get them as it would involve more travelling for such teams. We are Leicester / Nottingham based and considered but rejected it - even though we figured it would make promotion easier to achieve! For example, Nottingham to

Hinckley 41 miles
Daventry 57 miles
Sunningdale 138 miles

compare that to

Crewe 67 miles
Harrogate 87 miles
Darlington 126 miles

I'd also looked at whether it makes sense to play in the 4NCL Northern League and came up with similar numbers to Sean. Hinckley and Daventry are very easy for Nottinghamshire - an hour or less for most of us, who tend to live in the south of the county.

Venues change of course. Not so long ago the bottom division of the 4NCL had four weekends out of five at either Sunningdale Park or Wokefield Park. If the Northern League establishes itself, I could see the southern venues taking over from the midlands again, which would make the Northern League more attractive to midlands-based teams.

[Mick Norris]

If the Northern League establishes itself, I could see the southern venues taking over from the midlands again, which would make the Northern League more attractive to midlands-based teams.

Ian

It would appear that the Northern League will gain a new team next season, but lose one of the existing teams, so we would welcome any new teams, or transferring teams from Div 3 south

You get to visit different places, different hotels, play different players, so I hope you would consider it even if your travelling is slightly longer

I'm not sure if it is an easier or harder route to promotion, we will get to find out at the end of next month

Give it a go and help us get it established

[Ian Kingston]

If the Northern League establishes itself, I could see the southern venues taking over from the midlands again, which would make the Northern League more attractive to midlands-based teams.

Ian

It would appear that the Northern League will gain a new team next season, but lose one of the existing teams, so we would welcome any new teams, or transferring teams from Div 3 south

You get to visit different places, different hotels, play different players, so I hope you would consider it even if your travelling is slightly longer

I'm not sure if it is an easier or harder route to promotion, we will get to find out at the end of next month

Give it a go and help us get it established

Well, first we have to be allowed back in to the 4NCL. If we are, then which part of it we play in is not my decision.

As far as the travelling is concerned, the extra distance to Crewe and Harrogate is just enough to tip the balance against travelling daily and in favour of staying overnight, particularly for those who drive and don't want to arrive tired. The extra cost wasn't too much of an issue three or four years ago, but it is now (for some people, anyway).

[Sean Hewitt]

I guess when I said `North Midlands` I had a line roughly north of Stoke - Nottingham in mind..

David - my distances were calculated from Nottingham. Therefore, the point that I am making is that your 'line' needs to move further north than that.