4NCL Northern - Round 7

[Mick Norris]

The average strength of the Aigburth players for the jamboree last weekend was 177.
Are you sure they count as an easy team!!

Bob

Well, they managed to lose to us the previous day!

Given Bradford B's juniors appear under rated, there were no easy teams that we played

I have no idea how Aigburth managed to lose in the first 7 rounds, and why they then did so well in the Jamboree

[LozCooper]

After having to report on ten different league tables and a jamboree as well as three different venues in March I'm also looking forward to five leagues at one venue in May

[Alan Walton]

If Bradford A do well and get promoted then that will be a great achievement. We will then need to decide whether we accept promotion or remain in the Northern League.

I have a slight problem about the Northern League teams declining promotion

This example may be the worry I have

Presume both Bradford and Atticus do particularly well in the final weekend and each beat Brown Jack and Wessex 2, therefore those teams could only pick up a maximum of 2 match points, this could result in them falling to 8th position in the league, and miss out on promotion. Then the "northern" teams declined their promotion and teams 3rd-6th then get promoted instead, but none of these teams may have played the northern teams, and therefore it would seem very unfair on Brown Jack and Wessex 2 to have been adversely affected

This seems to me a worrying and unfair situation

[Michael Yeo]

How are the final weekend's fixtures determined.
Do they publish all three rounds in advance, or are the pairings done after each round is completed?

Last season Rounds 9 & 10 were published in advance. I believe that whether or not only Round 9 is published depends on how well the Swiss system has worked up until now. This season (unlike last season), I think Division 3 has worked quite well in that Brown Jack v Wessex 2 is the only pairing amongst the top teams that has not yet happened. However, it could certainly be argued that the introduction of the Northern League makes it more desirable to pair one round at a time, which may reduce the problem Alan Walton has identified above.

[Mick Norris]

I have a slight problem about the Northern League teams declining promotion

This example may be the worry I have

Presume both Bradford and Atticus do particularly well in the final weekend and each beat Brown Jack and Wessex 2, therefore those teams could only pick up a maximum of 2 match points, this could result in them falling to 8th position in the league, and miss out on promotion. Then the "northern" teams declined their promotion and teams 3rd-6th then get promoted instead, but none of these teams may have played the northern teams, and therefore it would seem very unfair on Brown Jack and Wessex 2 to have been adversely affected

This seems to me a worrying and unfair situation

As I understand it, if they decline promotion, then this will save teams from relegation from Div 2, not lead to Div 3 teams 5 and 6 being promoted instead - whether this is desirable, I don't know

[Sean Hewitt]

If Bradford A do well and get promoted then that will be a great achievement. We will then need to decide whether we accept promotion or remain in the Northern League.

I have a slight problem about the Northern League teams declining promotion

This example may be the worry I have

Presume both Bradford and Atticus do particularly well in the final weekend and each beat Brown Jack and Wessex 2, therefore those teams could only pick up a maximum of 2 match points, this could result in them falling to 8th position in the league, and miss out on promotion. Then the "northern" teams declined their promotion and teams 3rd-6th then get promoted instead, but none of these teams may have played the northern teams, and therefore it would seem very unfair on Brown Jack and Wessex 2 to have been adversely affected

This seems to me a worrying and unfair situation

It's even worse than that Alan.

In the scenario you describe, only the 3rd and 4th teams get promoted. Instead of promoting the 5th and 6th teams, the rules say that the top two relegated sides get a reprieve and stay up instead.

[Michael Yeo]

I have a slight problem about the Northern League teams declining promotion

This example may be the worry I have

Presume both Bradford and Atticus do particularly well in the final weekend and each beat Brown Jack and Wessex 2, therefore those teams could only pick up a maximum of 2 match points, this could result in them falling to 8th position in the league, and miss out on promotion. Then the "northern" teams declined their promotion and teams 3rd-6th then get promoted instead, but none of these teams may have played the northern teams, and therefore it would seem very unfair on Brown Jack and Wessex 2 to have been adversely affected

This seems to me a worrying and unfair situation

As I understand it, if they decline promotion, then this will save teams from relegation from Div 2, not lead to Div 3 teams 5 and 6 being promoted instead - whether this is desirable, I don't know

Highly undesirable, in my view. Celtic Tigers 1 opted to play in Division 3 last season rather than Division 2. I couldn't say for certain at the moment that Wessex 2 would opt for promotion if they finished in the top 4. You might then find that all the top 4 teams stay put and hence no-one gets relegated!

[Sean Hewitt]

I pointed out the danger of this rule and the possibility of this occurring last year. I suggested that the rule should be changed so that the 4 highest finishers wanting promotion get it. Hopefully, we can agree such a rule change at the captains meeting, albeit for next season.

Having said that I do hope that the top 4 take promotion, whomever they may be!

[Mick Norris]

I pointed out the danger of this rule and the possibility of this occurring last year. I suggested that the rule should be changed so that the 4 highest finishers wanting promotion get it. Hopefully, we can agree such a rule change at the captains meeting, albeit for next season.

That seems sensible to me

When do teams have to decide about taking a promotion place?

[Sean Hewitt]

I pointed out the danger of this rule and the possibility of this occurring last year. I suggested that the rule should be changed so that the 4 highest finishers wanting promotion get it. Hopefully, we can agree such a rule change at the captains meeting, albeit for next season.

That seems sensible to me

When do teams have to decide about taking a promotion place?

Theoretically, if and when they enter for the following season. There is normally a deadline for entering in August, so that's when you need to decide.

[Michael Yeo]

I pointed out the danger of this rule and the possibility of this occurring last year. I suggested that the rule should be changed so that the 4 highest finishers wanting promotion get it. Hopefully, we can agree such a rule change at the captains meeting, albeit for next season.

That seems sensible to me

When do teams have to decide about taking a promotion place?

Theoretically, if and when they enter for the following season. There is normally a deadline for entering in August, so that's when you need to decide.

And in practice, somewhat later. In 2008, Wessex 2 were contacted 26 days after the closing date to see whether they would like to play in Division 2 rather than Division 3.

[Alan Walton]

So as 3Cs are hovering around the relegation places, I just hope then they decline promotion, makes our job slightly easier going into the final weekend

On a serious note though if all 4 did declined promotion and the teams finishing 5th-8th took the promotion slots, would these teams really be good enough for the 2nd Division, firstly the couldn't out perform 4 of their rivals so do they deserve it, and secondly would this adversely affect the overall strength of the 2nd Division

[David Pardoe]

Maybe they need to split the Div 3 Finals into two or three sections of about 14 teams each and let the three groups play off separately to determine the winners. By then pairing top v bottom for each group in round 9 your actual major candidates should emerge...going into the final two rounds.
Whatever the result, I`m sure that two worthy candidates from the top group will emerge to challenge in Div 2 next season.

[Brian Valentine]

On a serious note though if all 4 did declined promotion and the teams finishing 5th-8th took the promotion slots, would these teams really be good enough for the 2nd Division, firstly the couldn't out perform 4 of their rivals so do they deserve it, and secondly would this adversely affect the overall strength of the 2nd Division

The point is that they probably wouldn't be promoted anyway. These are the relevant extracts from the 4NCL rules:

11.1 Four teams will be relegated from Division 1, four teams will be promoted from Division 2, four teams will be relegated from Division 2 and four teams will be promoted from Division 3/the Northern League.

11.4 Once the requirements of rule 11.1 have been fulfilled, in the event that existing teams decide not to renew their entries teams in the relevant division that would otherwise have been relegated at the end of the season will not be relegated (starting with the relegated team finishing in the highest position, and so on down the relegated teams). In the event that the number of teams not renewing their entries exceeds the number of relegated teams, extra teams will be promoted from the lower division after applying the provisions in the first section of this rule, and so on down the divisions as necessary.

[Mick Norris]

Alan

There is no chance of the Manchester Manticores winning comfortably in the coming weekend

Winning may be a possibility, but I wouldn't put any money on it

It is perhaps more interesting to see how the middle of the NL gets on i.e. Holmes Chapel, Jorvik and Cheddleton 2 - have they had it tough by playing Bradford and Spirit of Atticus, or easy by playing Manchester and Aigburth?

Don't sell yourself short, have you seen some of the teams at the bottom of the normal league, even our kids are alot stronger than them, and on paper you are at least as strong as our kids

Well, we managed 2 wins, neither comfortable, and 1 draw