THANKS!

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Paul Cooksey

Re: THANKS!

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed May 09, 2012 3:42 pm

For me, I care more about the inclusion of Northern players than Northern teams.

If I was convinced the weekend in Sunningdale is discouraging significant numbers Northern players, I’d ask my captain to lobby for it to be moved to the Midlands. Even though Suningdale is very convenient for me, in terms of the time and expense invested in playing a season, it makes relatively little difference. But I am not sure this has been proved, certainly for 180+ players who are likely to play in div 1 and 2.

I’m starting to wonder if David considers Hinkley “South centric”. I disagree with that. Midlands seems right to me. It is equally inconvenient for most players.

I’d happily play in Sheffield, Washington (again :) ), Bristol, or even Edinburgh or Dublin if it significant increased the number of players involved. But it seems doubtful.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: Midlands seems right to me. It is equally inconvenient for most players.
Oxford area players are beneficiaries since both the Southern venues (Wokefield, Sunningdale, Latimer) and the Midlands venues (Daventry, Hinckley) are within easy reach for a same day commute if they don't want to stay over. Some years ago, the Oxford County association made the decision to drop out of SCCU county competitions, thereby removing the need to travel to Cambridge, Charlton, Brighton etc.

Richard Bates
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Richard Bates » Wed May 09, 2012 6:41 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
I’m starting to wonder if David considers Hinkley “South centric”. I disagree with that. Midlands seems right to me. It is equally inconvenient for most players.
I wonder if it is sometime overlooked in the rush to say how difficult it is for 'Northern' players, that "Southern players" do not all come from places with such good transport links, or as central and/or far North as London....

David Pardoe
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Re: THANKS!

Post by David Pardoe » Wed May 09, 2012 6:52 pm

Alan,
3Cs are an ambitious club, and good luck to them. Whether they really need to watch some `bussed in foriegn GMs` to get extra buzz factor, I`m not sure. The novelty might wear off after a while.
But I agree that these things do add value, and its really good that such events are alive and kicking.
Seeing such a presence at the Finals w/e at Hinckley will probably do for most players, and is a definate `draw`...
The same `pull factor` helped to make Sheffield such a great success last summer...
On a practical level, a question is ..how far do we really want to travel to play our chess...and what level of time and costs are we prepared to accept.
Your specific problem of having to travel far and wide to avoid playing Mike Surtees is a difficult one...not all players feel the need to travel to the deep south to get there chess fix.... Other events across the country offer plenty of variety.
The fact that you have had your fill of northern chess, and feel the need to move further afield is understandable, not least because you play league and congress chess, and play in the largest w/e northern league event, ie the Woodhouse, which also confers `Yorkshire status` on you.
Leicester is not in the north...so we need one or two genuine northern venues to balance things, in my opinion. Obviously a `south centric` based event will inevitably attract a largely south centric entry....which has established itself over a number of years to become (quite rightly), a highly rated event.
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Mick Norris
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Mick Norris » Wed May 09, 2012 7:30 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Paul Cooksey wrote:
I’m starting to wonder if David considers Hinkley “South centric”. I disagree with that. Midlands seems right to me. It is equally inconvenient for most players.
I wonder if it is sometime overlooked in the rush to say how difficult it is for 'Northern' players, that "Southern players" do not all come from places with such good transport links, or as central and/or far North as London....
No, I would suggest Div 3 moves further south in the first 3 weekends, partly to help the Southern players and partly to persuade some of the Midlands players that the Northern League is worth a go (2 weekends at Crewe is not very north :) )
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Alan Walton
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Alan Walton » Wed May 09, 2012 7:31 pm

David,

A couple of points, watching the best players play isn't a novelty, it is a good way of understanding what it takes to play at the highest level (i.e. the 4NCL), it seems to me you miss the point of the 4NCL if you think watching (or playing) top players is a novelty, it is an integral part of the whole competition, which unfortunately the Northern League currently doesn't provide is the same way

I don't play the down south (or even up north) to get my chess fix, I play strong tournaments and the 4NCL to play against the strongest possible players and endeavour to improve as a player.

My question to you would be how far are you willing to travel to play tournaments, by the looks of it 2 hours is too far for you, therefore the 4NCL isn't your competition (where ideally all weekends should be in the Midlands)

Carl, is it possible to move most of this thread, it seems to have diverted away from the Thanks originally mentioned

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Re: THANKS!

Post by David Robertson » Wed May 09, 2012 7:41 pm

I agree with Alan. I have something to say on 'travel' in the light of experience. But also on 'thanks', ditto. At least 'impressions' hasn't been entirely f**ked up as a thread. Yet

[edit] Correction. I just checked. Even the 'impressions' thread has been f**ked up. Useless f**king Forum, dominated by blog monkeys (if not, termites)

David Pardoe
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Re: THANKS!

Post by David Pardoe » Wed May 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Alan,
You miss my point about travel..
I`m not saying that you (or anyone else), should not travel south.
What I`m saying is that, if you`re going to have a genuinely `National` league, then that league needs to be played across that National territory (in my opinion), to be truely inclusive, and to fairly cater for the broader membership.
You focus exclusively on the `top players`...fine...thats your end of the market.
My question is pitched at the broader needs of the 3 divisions. There are teams in that league that would get battered in many local leagues.....do these people really need to travel the length of the country to get there chess. Some probably do (or will do), to fill a `void` in there chess playing options....and will go because its the only show in town.
But let me be quite clear... I am not having a go at the 4NCL event...it is a great chess offering.
Yes, Thanks are duely merited for this fine event.

I am concerned that the 4NCL Northern league gets its fair share of the recognition as a very good event, (and not austricised as just a sideshow)...albeit that it doesnt boast great shed loads of master class players (at least not many that have been spotted/recognised...but one or two might just give some big shots a run for there money, if not now, then maybe at a future date).
Alan, dont talk to me about travel, when you play for Yorkshire on the pretext that travelling across Manchester is too much trouble (it seemingly appears), to play for the local county.
I know that county chess isnt everyones cup of tea...many counties cant even raise a single team in some areas.
Manchester should be in the county `premier league`, but languishes in the county basement due partly to the general esteem in which county chess is held (and has been for some while by senior players). Even though it does produce some top draw matches at times.
Hopefully this form of w/e chess will continue to draw deserved support....a good variety of chess events is vital for chess in this country.
Apologies for any `digression`....just responding to some points made earlier in the thread that I believe needed addressing.

Alan has since advised me that he feels a strong sence of allegence to Yorkshire, where he has many chess friends/contacts...fair enough. Good luck....
On a personal note, I think if a county the size of Yorkshire cant field 16 `genuine locals`, its a tad disappointing, but thats what the rules permit. West Yorkshire alone could stand alongside most other counties and hold good account, I`d have thought, but thats another matter.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed May 09, 2012 10:47 pm

David Robertson wrote:I agree with Alan. I have something to say on 'travel' in the light of experience. But also on 'thanks', ditto. At least 'impressions' hasn't been entirely f**ked up as a thread. Yet

[edit] Correction. I just checked. Even the 'impressions' thread has been f**ked up. Useless f**king Forum, dominated by blog monkeys (if not, termites)
I will try and tidy-up some of the threads but I have only been home from work half an hour and other things take priority
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

David Pardoe
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Re: THANKS!

Post by David Pardoe » Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi Carl..
I think David has missed the diversity of the plot. Putting blinkers on to limit discussion will kill the quality and variety of the discussions, and create a very restricted tunnel vision. . And carving up the discussioons into millions of split threads will just create unnecessary confusion. Most people have the wit to pick up on the jist of discussions, contribute as they feel fit, and ignore anything they regard as superflous, in my view...
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed May 09, 2012 11:00 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Hi Carl..
I think David has missed the diversity of the plot. Putting blinkers on to limit discussion will kill the quality and variety of the discussions, and create a very restricted tunnel vision. . And carving up the discussioons into millions of split threads will just create unnecessary confusion. Most people have the wit to pick up on the jist of discussions, contribute as they feel fit, and ignore anything they regard as superflous, in my view...
I also think he has a point on some of the topic drifting but to be honest I choose to go to bed instead at this time
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Re: THANKS!

Post by Andrew Bak » Thu May 10, 2012 12:16 am

Trying to get back on topic, I would also like to offer my gratitude and thanks to all those who do a tremendous job in running the 4NCL like a well-oiled machine. It must take an enormous amount of effort from all those involved.

I certainly appreciate the opportunity to play strong opponents and having FIDE rated games to my name!

Mark Josse
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Mark Josse » Sun May 13, 2012 12:32 am

I think the North League should be scrapped all rounds in the Midlands it took a lot of south players 2-3 hours travel this last weekend and then there can be no complaints about South centric ( whatever that means ) . We all meet in the middle and there is chess for all . I know many South based friends who dont play 4NCL because they dont want to travel to the Midlands 4 weekends a year and thats fair enough if you dont want to travel as previously pointed out i cant see how the 4NCL will be a viable option for a club.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: THANKS!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 13, 2012 1:11 am

Mark Josse wrote:I think the North League should be scrapped all rounds in the Midlands it took a lot of south players 2-3 hours travel this last weekend and then there can be no complaints about South centric ( whatever that means ) .
At a guess, "southern" players tolerate the midland bias of the 4NCL because it's an excuse for a weekend away. It depends where you start from, if for the sake of argument you start from the e2e4/BUCA Uplands hotel in High Wycombe, then both the Daventry hotels and Hinckley Island are a breeze by comparison with Catford Cricket Club or Charlton House. That assumes you drive.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: THANKS!

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun May 13, 2012 1:14 am

Hinckley is certainly not great to get to if you're coming up from the south-west by train; the connection time at Birmingham New Street is horrible. Daventry (nearest railway station: Long Buckby) is even worse.

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