4NCL North 2012/13

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Mick Norris
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4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:15 pm

I see Atticus have entered a team

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1213_teams.htm

Will be interesting to see if we get any more new teams

Nice to see Holmes Chapel back too
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Richard Bates
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:42 pm

Will a clash with the British Rapidplay cause a problem?

Mike Truran
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:58 pm

When I booked the 4NCL weekends there was no clash. For whatever reason the British Rapidplay organisers subsequently booked their event for the same weekend, even though the 4NCL dates were published on the 4NCL website and ECF calendar. It may be that they had no choice given (un)available dates at their chosen venue. That's only speculation on my part though.

It does seem a shame though given the relative scarcity of FIDE rated events in the north.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:15 am

We now have 8 teams entered, matching the first season of the Northern League

Presumably this will avoid the 2 Bradford teams having to play each other
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:07 pm

Bob Clark wrote: Its good that we wont need a Jamboree this year. but I imagine the round 6 pairings might be interesting with only 8 teams
It's up to the league or whoever is doing the pairings, but use of all play all pairings with one round missing is one possible solution. In all play all leagues, the rules frequently say that two teams from the same club have to meet in the first round.

Yet another plan would be for round 7 to have separate "Northern" pairings to complete the apa prior to amalgamating with the rest in round 8.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:53 pm

Bob Clark wrote:Its good that we wont need a Jamboree this year
Agreed :D
Bob Clark wrote: but I imagine the round 6 pairings might be interesting with only 8 teams
I once played in a 6 round Open Swiss with 8 players, and the last 4 rounds had to be drawn at the same time to make sure that valid pairings were possible
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:09 pm

Mick Norris wrote: I once played in a 6 round Open Swiss with 8 players, and the last 4 rounds had to be drawn at the same time to make sure that valid pairings were possible
Normal 4NCL rules would be that the first two rounds are paired at the same time, so that pairings for the whole weekend are available. I might suspect that the pairings for rounds 3 and 4 have to be done with the knowledge that pairings for round 5 and 6 remain possible, so reference to the apa chart for 8 players would be necessary. But perhaps this is one of the difficult questions in the arbitering exams " You have 8 players or teams and a six round competition .... "

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:16 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:But perhaps this is one of the difficult questions in the arbitering exams " You have 8 players or teams and a six round competition .... "
I once had that at the Keynsham Rapidplay. I asked the players if they'd mind playing G/20 instead of G/25 so they could get seven rounds in; they said that was fine, so that was that.

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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:But perhaps this is one of the difficult questions in the arbitering exams " You have 8 players or teams and a six round competition .... "
I once had that at the Keynsham Rapidplay. I asked the players if they'd mind playing G/20 instead of G/25 so they could get seven rounds in; they said that was fine, so that was that.
The London Team Rapidplay had 8 teams and 6 rounds. It went from 25 + 10' to 20 + 10', and became an APA. The same kind of thing, really.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:36 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: The London Team Rapidplay had 8 teams and 6 rounds. It went from 25 + 10' to 20 + 10', and became an APA. The same kind of thing, really.
The Northern 4NCL can do the same (convert to an APA), provided the League sets aside its rule about round 7 having to be mixed between Northern teams and the rest.

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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Andrew Bak » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:10 pm

I might be missing something very obvious here, but is it not possible to just have a swiss for 6 rounds in Div 3 North and then combine with Div 3 South for Round 7?

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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:12 pm

Andrew Bak wrote:I might be missing something very obvious here, but is it not possible to just have a swiss for 6 rounds in Div 3 North
Doing a Swiss with 6 rounds and 8 players isn't easy. You run the real risk of running out of legal pairings for round 6. By pairing both rounds in advance, you're less likely to have this problem, but it nevertheless is a problem.

David Pardoe
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by David Pardoe » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:20 pm

Good to see this support from Merseyside, with two new teams entering.
Another few from the north...maybe Preston....Durham...and Notts, would be great..
Maybe that would allow the reinstatement of another northern playing venue say Bradford/Leeds or Sheffield areas.
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David Pardoe
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Re: 4NCL North 2012/13

Post by David Pardoe » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:11 pm

Hi Bob,
I agree it would be good to have a South Manchester team...and I`m sure there are enough players to form a good team squad of say 12 players. There are plenty of good clubs in that area, including Stockport league, that could source players.
I`ve put some tentative feelers out previously, but not really had much response. But, a more formal request to clubs and players in the area could be worthwhile.
I reckon you should aim to get at least 4 or 5 players graded over 175, and another 4 or 5 over say 145 to give a good base.
I think I`ve probably done my stint at captaincy, but I would certainly be willing to assist anyone who would like to run a team, and it might be good to model it on Manchester`s approach, as regards costs. Its fairly straight forward, and the 4NCL website sets out the rules and other details. http://www.4ncl.com
Hopefully somebody will do this, because the league is very good, with good hotel venues, and discount rates for Saturday stays...and some good social.
Maybe someone will raise this at a local club/league AGM...

PS It might be good to change the pairing arrangements when the div 3 league `merge` for matches at Leicester, Hinckley Island. I`d suggest that initial pairings are based on the average ratings of the teams from previous matches.
I say this because bringing together the two leagues can throw up some strange clashes, where teams are clearly mismatched in strength. eg the lower teams in the North division probably rate equal to those in the lower half of the `south` section, but not the bottom teams.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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