Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:19 pm

Some interesting results over the most recent 4NCL weekend (rounds 7 and 8 ).

Tables after round 8 are currently showing here (though division 3 not yet updated):

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/tbs_1213.htm

Some sides are very close to relegation or promotion already, but the Division 1 title looks like going down to the clash between Guildford and Wood Green Hilsmark on the final weekend. I was trying to look up which round that would be, but the fixtures don't seem to be up yet for rounds 9-11 - does that come later?

As far as I can make out, division 3 is a three-way tie between Bradford DCA Knights A, Hackney, and Cambridge University 2, all on 14 match points, with two teams on 12 points (Anglian Avengers 2 and Cheddleton 2).
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:00 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ... the Division 1 title looks like going down to the clash between Guildford and Wood Green Hilsmark on the final weekend. I was trying to look up which round that would be, but the fixtures don't seem to be up yet for rounds 9-11 - does that come later?

...
Yes, I am not aware of them being published yet. It is like this every year just after the fourth weekend, in fact. But since these two teams each topped their respective pools they will certainly play in the final round of the championship pool.

What I find astonishing is the relegation table in division one. Sambuca, Warwickshire and Dragons are all ahead of the more powerful looking Guildford 2 and Blackthorne and the competitive e2e4 team. It will definitely be the most tense and bloodthirsty final weekend in the relegation pool since the new system began - much to everyone's surprise, it seems that at the moment only one team (BCM Dragons) can safely be written into division two next year.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:09 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:What I find astonishing is the relegation table in division one. Sambuca, Warwickshire and Dragons are all ahead of the more powerful looking Guildford 2 and Blackthorne and the competitive e2e4 team. It will definitely be the most tense and bloodthirsty final weekend in the relegation pool since the new system began - much to everyone's surprise, it seems that at the moment only one team (BCM Dragons) can safely be written into division two next year.
Blackthorne Russia had the misfortune of starting off on zero points. Not sure how the other teams were affected by the championship/demotion pool split, but I do know that e2e4 lost the vital clash in round 6 with Cambridge University (who started life in the championship pool with zero points, but probably couldn't care less about that).

Looking at the possible promotion candidates in division 2, which do you think would have good chances of surviving (or doing better than that) in division 1 next year if they get promoted? I like the look of King's Head, if you look at the teams they have been able to field this year. They only need one more win to secure promotion, though if the division 2 prize money is any good, they may be aiming for that.

Richard Bates
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:20 pm

I think it likely that an unusually high 8pts (possibly with a good points difference as well) will be necessary to stay up. If so at least one of Guildford 2 and ourselves (BR) will be relegated. No teams are safe, although Wood Green 2's good points difference makes them practically so, assuming they pick up one more win.

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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:50 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I do know that e2e4 lost the vital clash in round 6 with Cambridge University (who started life in the championship pool with zero points, but probably couldn't care less about that).
You mean Round 7, of course.

e2e4 must have been badly affected by the sudden death of Richard Almond, reported in another thread.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:03 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:What I find astonishing is the relegation table in division one. Sambuca, Warwickshire and Dragons are all ahead of the more powerful looking Guildford 2 and Blackthorne and the competitive e2e4 team. It will definitely be the most tense and bloodthirsty final weekend in the relegation pool since the new system began - much to everyone's surprise, it seems that at the moment only one team (BCM Dragons) can safely be written into division two next year.
Blackthorne Russia had the misfortune of starting off on zero points. Not sure how the other teams were affected by the championship/demotion pool split, but I do know that e2e4 lost the vital clash in round 6 with Cambridge University (who started life in the championship pool with zero points, but probably couldn't care less about that).
I am sure they no longer care a fig!They deserve their place though, not just because they were efficient against the lower half of their pool (three wins and a draw) but because they put up a real fight against the stronger teams - and became the first team to win two individual games against Guildford 1 yesterday. By contrast e2 e4 have been much more inconsistent. In fact I would (although yes, I would) say pretty much the same about Barbican 2 being more consistent and more deserving than Wood Green 2. There are further similarities. Both Cambridge and Barbican 2 would have taken 5/6 points if they had gone into the relegation pool, but Wood Green 2 and e2e4 only took 4/6 and 3/6 respectively. That is why the relegation pool is now so exciting.

The fact that Wood Green 1's draw with e2 e4 now disappears as well as Guildford 1's draw with Wood Green 2 is a further example of parity which happily leaves the championship race open.

Cambridge and Barbican 2's successes in round seven of course had implications for several other teams. Those who gained were:

Sambuca, who now carry their win over e2e4 and look in a surprisingly strong position to survive
South Wales Dragons, who now carry their earlier win over Wood Green 2, but they will need James Cobb to return in May

Those who cursed their luck were

White Rose who were hoping not to carry their loss to Barbican 2
Guildford 2, who do not carry their draw with Cambridge
Blackthorne, who do not carry their draw with Barbican 2
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Looking at the possible promotion candidates in division 2, which do you think would have good chances of surviving (or doing better than that) in division 1 next year if they get promoted? I like the look of King's Head, if you look at the teams they have been able to field this year. They only need one more win to secure promotion, though if the division 2 prize money is any good, they may be aiming for that.
No, I think Kings Head will be like BCM Dragons this year and Anglian Avengers in the previous year. That is, I am sure that they deserve their high spot in the second division, but they will be outclassed in all areas in the first division. Inter alia they will need a woman player since they have been relying on Ravi Haria as their junior recently.
Last edited by Jonathan Rogers on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

John Foley
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by John Foley » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote: ..it seems that at the moment only one team (BCM Dragons) can safely be written into division two next year.
BCM Dragons kept more or less the same team when we were promoted into Division One but the standard is so much higher. We made a decision to keep the same team because we felt that those who had done the hard work to get promoted deserved to play at the higher level. We also have some excellent juniors in James Holland, Matthew Wadsworth and William Claridge-Hansen who obtained great experience at this level. I think more recognition should be given to teams like BCM who are interested in developing players. If there was a league table of the moral high ground then we would be contenders.

Meanwhile, on a sporting note, I should say that BCM Dragons cannot be "safely" written off and will make life as difficult as possible for our opponents.

John Foley
Captain, BCM Dragons

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:05 am

Richard Bates wrote:I think it likely that an unusually high 8pts (possibly with a good points difference as well) will be necessary to stay up. If so at least one of Guildford 2 and ourselves (BR) will be relegated. No teams are safe, although Wood Green 2's good points difference makes them practically so, assuming they pick up one more win.
If you will forgive the sense of prurience, Blackthorne v Guildford 2 would be a good pick for the live boards in the final weekend, in terms of both significance and strength.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:09 am

John Foley wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote: ..it seems that at the moment only one team (BCM Dragons) can safely be written into division two next year.
BCM Dragons kept more or less the same team when we were promoted into Division One but the standard is so much higher. We made a decision to keep the same team because we felt that those who had done the hard work to get promoted deserved to play at the higher level. We also have some excellent juniors in James Holland, Matthew Wadsworth and William Claridge-Hansen who obtained great experience at this level. I think more recognition should be given to teams like BCM who are interested in developing players. If there was a league table of the moral high ground then we would be contenders.

Meanwhile, on a sporting note, I should say that BCM Dragons cannot be "safely" written off and will make life as difficult as possible for our opponents.

John Foley
Captain, BCM Dragons
By all means I wish you well, but I was just analysing the official tables rather than the "moral" tables! The former suggest that you will need to win all three matches in the last weekend, including the match against Blackthorne. And you might need some high scores too.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:45 am

Any suggestions for games to be included in my report?

Alan Walton
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Alan Walton » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:54 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:Any suggestions for games to be included in my report?
Not being totally impartial, after having a demoralising 12 move lost (I was black) from Gibraltar published by Malcolm Peim in the Marshall Gambit, I had an interesting game against Jim Burnett as white in the same opening

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Ben Purton
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Ben Purton » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:03 pm

No matter what happens over the final weekend. I am extremely proud of my team this season. To be on 6 points is an incredible achievement for us. Unfortunately we will be outgraded in all our remaining 3 matches. Especially annoying having to play Wood Green 2. We are still favourites to go down this year but usually we would find ourselves with nothing to play for.

Can you please include the game we won V wood green Loz. Sam Williams was a talented junior(In an era when Ameet and Ste were there also) who all but gave up. But when you get told "Im going to try the Grunfeld because I think he wrote the book Ive got at home on it" and then win that made us happy.

Whilst Jonathan might be shocked by us. The only team to rival our over performance thus far has to be Barbican 2 who smashed away WGHK2 despite the difference in rating with ease. They have outperformed their rivals in numerous matches they perhaps should not.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Ben Purton wrote:No matter what happens over the final weekend. I am extremely proud of my team this season. To be on 6 points is an incredible achievement for us. Unfortunately we will be outgraded in all our remaining 3 matches. Especially annoying having to play Wood Green 2. We are still favourites to go down this year but usually we would find ourselves with nothing to play for.

Can you please include the game we won V wood green Loz. Sam Williams was a talented junior(In an era when Ameet and Ste were there also) who all but gave up. But when you get told "Im going to try the Grunfeld because I think he wrote the book Ive got at home on it" and then win that made us happy.

Whilst Jonathan might be shocked by us. The only team to rival our over performance thus far has to be Barbican 2 who smashed away WGHK2 despite the difference in rating with ease. They have outperformed their rivals in numerous matches they perhaps should not.
Surprised rather than shocked, and certainly impressed with Sambuca this season. As outlined above, Cambridge as well as Barbican 2 have consistently overperformed this season too.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:47 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Any suggestions for games to be included in my report?
Rudd v Jones from the Bristol-KJCA match is a classic Jack Rudd swindling effort, if you want one of those.

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Re: Tables after round 8 (2012-13 season)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:05 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Any suggestions for games to be included in my report?
Rudd v Jones from the Bristol-KJCA match is a classic Jack Rudd swindling effort, if you want one of those.
Having seen the assessment for much of the game I think it would be a little bit too cruel on your opponent :oops:

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