Move rates and League structure

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Paul Dargan
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Paul Dargan » Sat May 11, 2013 10:11 pm

Can someone remind me pleae what the changes are for next season? Where are Div 3 and Div 3 North playing? where's Div 1/2?

Thanks,

Paul

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 11, 2013 10:22 pm

Paul Dargan wrote:Can someone remind me pleae what the changes are for next season? Where are Div 3 and Div 3 North playing? where's Div 1/2?
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/2013_14_dates.htm

Divisions 1 and 2 are at Hinckley and Division 3 at Daventry for all weekends. Division 3 North is at Redworth Hall Hotel, Shrigley Hall, and Buxton Palace, then moves south to Daventry for the final two weekends. 4NCL Rapidplay at Daventry in October.

Mick Norris
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Mick Norris » Sun May 12, 2013 9:13 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Division 3 North is at Redworth Hall Hotel
Good news it is back to the November date - we had great weather the first 2 years in November up there, whereas Jan 12 and, particularly 13, this year were difficult - the most interesting of the venues as well
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun May 12, 2013 9:31 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Division 3 North is at Redworth Hall Hotel
Good news it is back to the November date - we had great weather the first 2 years in November up there, whereas Jan 12 and, particularly 13, this year were difficult - the most interesting of the venues as well
Division 3 North should try and attract more players and teams based on the fact that their venues are more interesting than the same old nice-but-a-bit-boring-now venues of Daventry and Hinckley. If I had any connection at all to "the North" (and a somewhat better grade), and didn't already have a team to play for, I'd be seriously tempted. Is the travel that much more difficult (other than distance) than for the southern venues? Having said that, what is the average playing strength of Division 3 North compared to the main Division 3?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 12, 2013 9:46 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Having said that, what is the average playing strength of Division 3 North compared to the main Division 3?
Every so often there is a debate as to whether the leading Division 3 North teams face weaker opposition in the first six rounds than their Southern counterparts. Whenever someone checks the average opposition between a top Division 3 team and a Northern team, it usually seems to come out around the same.

Mick Norris
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Mick Norris » Sun May 12, 2013 9:59 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Division 3 North is at Redworth Hall Hotel
Good news it is back to the November date - we had great weather the first 2 years in November up there, whereas Jan 12 and, particularly 13, this year were difficult - the most interesting of the venues as well
Division 3 North should try and attract more players and teams based on the fact that their venues are more interesting than the same old nice-but-a-bit-boring-now venues of Daventry and Hinckley. If I had any connection at all to "the North" (and a somewhat better grade), and didn't already have a team to play for, I'd be seriously tempted. Is the travel that much more difficult (other than distance) than for the southern venues?
Chris

Absolutely - Redworth is an old Baronial place onto which a modern hotel has been added, a real rabbit warren - I have stayed in 3 different "wings" of the hotel in the 3 years so far - on the North Yorks/Durham border, a very pleasant location

It is the furthest distance for most of us to travel, but only about the same time from Bolton as Hinckley Island (and less I guess than Daventry)

We have 2 new venues this season - Pott Shrigley is a nice hotel (I went to a wedding there once) in a village not far from Macclesfield - country lanes around there, so may be a challenge if it is snowing - it was used as an overspill hotel for e2e4 when the Buxton hotel double booked some guests - lovely countryside

Buxton is, in my view, a replacement for Harrogate i.e. an old style hotel in a spa town, so walking distance to restaurants, but an ideal place to take non-chess playing partners - again, the travelling may be a challenge if it snows

Shame to see the excellent hotel at Crewe dropped, but Shrigley and Buxton may encourage more of the North West players to stay rather than commute

I'm thinking of playing all 3 weekends

We then get Daventry, again a new experience, so maybe I'll play 1 or both of those too (if I don't find a house to buy soon, I'll be homeless by then anyway :lol: )

Unless you are Neil Graham, I think many players will see that Div 3 North is a good event
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David Pardoe
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by David Pardoe » Sun May 12, 2013 11:36 am

Yes, the Northern league certainly is good, and offers good variety of venues, fine chess playing conditions, and good social/camaradery, in between some keenly fought battles.
It would be very good if more teams could join this group. Neil G could bring his `Notts army` ...others would be most welcome. I`ve said before that teams from the North East & Lancs/Cumbria & Sheffield/Yorks would make welcome additions to the party...
Other teams from the `south section` are welcome also...see if they really can `fast track` to div 2..??!?
Such a shift would also help balance these divisions, where the `south` is distinctly overweight....
Maybe this message can be circulated via our northern Congresses and various leagues/AGMs...
If the numbers could be increased to say 12 - 16 teams, it would be very encouraging. This might allow us to increase the northern venues...Harrogate was very good. And, as Mick said, Crewe is ok.
Two trips to Daventry next year seems like the fuzzy logic brigade have been at work..?
The Finals w/e at Hinckley is preferable, in my view..where all the teams from each division meet together for the grand fanally..... Yes, its 500+ chess players all milling around the ladirynth of corridors and conference rooms...but it has a great atmosphere. I cant see a reason that this should not continue.. The venue is quite big enough, and there are plenty of local hotels available for those who might prefer to decamp off-site, and sample the delights of Leicestershire/Warwickshire..ort even Staffordshire on the May bank holiday.
BRING BACK THE BCF

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun May 12, 2013 11:54 am

David Pardoe wrote:I cant see a reason that this should not continue.. The venue is quite big enough, and there are plenty of local hotels available for those who might prefer to decamp off-site, and sample the delights of Leicestershire/Warwickshire..ort even Staffordshire on the May bank holiday.
I think the reason for this change was complaints from teams that they could not get enough bedrooms for their players. Yes, they could try other hotels but one of the main attractions of the 4NCL is that you can stay on site.

Richard Bates
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Richard Bates » Sun May 12, 2013 12:19 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
David Pardoe wrote:I cant see a reason that this should not continue.. The venue is quite big enough, and there are plenty of local hotels available for those who might prefer to decamp off-site, and sample the delights of Leicestershire/Warwickshire..ort even Staffordshire on the May bank holiday.
I think the reason for this change was complaints from teams that they could not get enough bedrooms for their players. Yes, they could try other hotels but one of the main attractions of the 4NCL is that you can stay on site.
I have no idea of the reasons, or indeed whether it is a temporary situation, but it is a shame that all the Div 1/2 games are now at Hinckley Island, especially if the extra space that it provides is not even needed. Nice hotel though it is, the whole experience of a 4ncl weekend could well begin to feel a bit "samey". Same rooms, same bar, same (for the less imaginative of us) restaurants...

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun May 12, 2013 12:23 pm

Richard Bates wrote:I have no idea of the reasons, or indeed whether it is a temporary situation, but it is a shame that all the Div 1/2 games are now at Hinckley Island, especially if the extra space that it provides is not even needed. Nice hotel though it is, the whole experience of a 4ncl weekend could well begin to feel a bit "samey". Same rooms, same bar, same (for the less imaginative of us) restaurants...
I know what you mean. I don't know if Div 1/2 could have alternated with Div 3 using Hinckley one weekend, Daventry the next. Depends on numbers I suppose. If it's possible in might be something they can consider the following year.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun May 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Or even getting some/all of the 'normal' Div 3 rounds properly down south to free up the Daventry hotel for Div 1/2?

The top 2 divisions 'need' to be pretty well central, but in theory there's the Northern league to help balance Division 3 travel out. Might help balance the numbers of teams in the two leagues out a bit better too, although maybe there's no collective appetite for that.
(Hoping for major numbers of extra teams from either Yorkshire (the Yorkshire league) or the North East (simple population limitations) seems rather optimistic.).

Angus French
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Angus French » Sun May 12, 2013 7:04 pm

I’ve just about stopped playing 4NCL chess though I did play last weekend to make up the numbers for my old team. As I live in London and haven’t been working, I’ve taken the view that it’s too much expense and effort. Were two of the Division 3 south weekends commutable I could change my mind. Presumably I’m in a minority as the league seems to be doing fine.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Joey Stewart » Sun May 12, 2013 8:14 pm

4NCL is not that cheap, true, but you do get what you pay for I.E. a good relaxing long game with minimal disturbance, a nice comfortable hotel room and the chance to watch the finest players in the country do battle.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun May 12, 2013 8:26 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:4NCL is not that cheap, true, but you do get what you pay for I.E. a good relaxing long game with minimal disturbance, a nice comfortable hotel room and the chance to watch the finest players in the country do battle.
The latter was available to division 3 players, but won't be next year. It is part of the attraction of 4NCL for me, not that it is guaranteed as my game might be still going and/or take all my attention before I can even think about that (and I probably stand a better chance of understanding what is going on in division 3 games). Whether the social aspects will be split between the two venues is another matter. Daventry and Hinckley are in theory close enough that squads split over the venues could co-ordinate, but in practice it might not happen as much. The strange thing is that I played very little 4NCL for a few years, but play much more now. That is probably more to do with the establishment of a third team in the squad I play for than anything else.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Move rates and League structure

Post by Joey Stewart » Sun May 12, 2013 11:11 pm

Oh dear, maybe I should move back into division 2 if I am going to miss the grand masters, or get myself a car so I dont need to get lifts.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.