4NCL season 2012-13

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Have just been looking at the relegation and promotion outcomes for the 2012-13 season, and comparing them to last year (2011-12 season).

(i) The four teams promoted to division 1 last year (AMCA Dragons, Warwickshire Select, South Wales Dragons & Sambuca Sharks) all went straight back down again (AMCA Dragons became BCM Dragons), though it was very close and could have worked out otherwise if things had gone slightly differently.

(ii) Of the four teams relegated from division 1 last year (Oxford 1, The AD's, Bristol 1 & Anglian Avengers 1), only Oxford 1 have bounced straight back up. They are joined by King's Head, Pandora's Box Grantham, and 3Cs 1. Bristol 1 and Anglian Avengers 1 were in the division 2 promotion pool this year, and the latter would have been promoted if Oxford 1 had failed to draw their last-round match against Kings Head. The ADs won the division 2 demotion pool.

(iii) Of the four teams promoted to division 2 last year (e2e4.org.uk 2, KJCA Kings, North East England & Wessex), two went straight back down (e2e4.org.uk 2 and North East England). Wessex survived relatively comfortably, finishing last in the division 2 promotion pool. KJCA Kings pulled off a near-miraculous survival, edging out two other teams on 8 match points and scoring heavily in their last match to ensure they survived, sending Poisoned Pawns and Spirit of Atticus down instead. If the Spirit of Atticus vs KJCA Kings match in the last round had finished 3.5-4.5, instead of 2.5-5.5, then the fourth survival spot would have been between three teams all on 8 match points and 28.5 game points - not sure how the tie-break would have worked there.

(iv) Of the four teams relegated from division 2 last year (Cambridge University 2, Bradford DCA Knights A, Brown Jack & FCA Solutions 1), the first three bounced straight back up again (along with Hackney), with only FCA Solutions 1 failing to gain promotion.

Not sure what this means in terms of the relative strengths of the divisions and the teams, but it does seem that there is a fair amount of bouncing up and down going on in terms of promotions and relegation. Has that always been the case?

PS. Congratulations to Guildford 1, the new 4NCL Champions!

[Joey Stewart]

Division one has a huge gulf between the championship and demotion teams, though this is probably a good thing as it prevents any elite squades being relegated and likely losing their players in the process, so keeps the league strong.

Div 2 is about the most evenly balanced, in my opinion, with most sides averaging 2200 and able to field a few masters, it really is anyones for the taking each year.

Div 3 is far too large and sprawling now, with a lucky few able to rise above the ranks and get promotion and a very large remainder coming away empty handed, especially with the top northern sides also putting in a strong bid for a promotion of their own. Definately time to start thinking of a division 4.

[Alan Walton]

Div 3 is far too large and sprawling now, with a lucky few able to rise above the ranks and get promotion and a very large remainder coming away empty handed, especially with the top northern sides also putting in a strong bid for a promotion of their own. Definately time to start thinking of a division 4.

I have to agree that Div 3 is too large, I would created a Div 3 in the same format as the top divisions, though this would have to be implemented in the 2014/15 season, with the top 4 in the 2013/14 season going up to Div 2, and the next 12 joining the 4 from Div 2 into the new division

The 4th Division can be played on the standard swiss system if there are more than 16 teams entering

[Greg Breed]

Div 3 is far too large and sprawling now, with a lucky few able to rise above the ranks and get promotion and a very large remainder coming away empty handed, especially with the top northern sides also putting in a strong bid for a promotion of their own. Definately time to start thinking of a division 4.

I have to agree that Div 3 is too large, I would created a Div 3 in the same format as the top divisions, though this would have to be implemented in the 2014/15 season, with the top 4 in the 2013/14 season going up to Div 2, and the next 12 joining the 4 from Div 2 into the new division

The 4th Division can be played on the standard swiss system if there are more than 16 teams entering

I also agree. It would also provide more of an incentive if there was more to play for than just making up the numbers. Although I enjoy the events, I'm sure with so many teams in Div 3 it could be broken down further. The only issue being the North/South divide...

In fact if we can get around that NvS stumbling block then something like
Div 3 = 16 teams
Div 4 = 14 teams
Div 5 = 14 teams

[Andrew Bak]

Perhaps the 4NCL could offer small prizes for teams whose average rating falls under certain bands, e.g. U1900, U1800, a bit like they do at the Olympiad. This would give something to play for for the teams that stand little chance of gaining promotion.

[Greg Breed]

Perhaps the 4NCL could offer small prizes for teams whose average rating falls under certain bands, e.g. U1900, U1800, a bit like they do at the Olympiad. This would give something to play for for the teams that stand little chance of gaining promotion.

I am led to believe that there is, although there is no mention of it in the rules...

[Christopher Kreuzer]

I've been trying (and failing) to find a prize list for this year. I may have to Google it rather than find it on the website. I did, however, find this page on typical strengths for the league:

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/strength.htm

However, that page is from 2003/4. I wonder how much things have changed (apart from going from 4 to 3 divisions)?

The prize list appears to be here:

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/how_to_enter.htm

Thread about last year's grading prizes here:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4407

[Jonathan Rogers]

...

(iii) Of the four teams promoted to division 2 last year (e2e4.org.uk 2, KJCA Kings, North East England & Wessex), two went straight back down (e2e4.org.uk 2 and North East England). Wessex survived relatively comfortably, finishing last in the division 2 promotion pool. KJCA Kings pulled off a near-miraculous survival, edging out two other teams on 8 match points and scoring heavily in their last match to ensure they survived, sending Poisoned Pawns and Spirit of Atticus down instead. If the Spirit of Atticus vs KJCA Kings match in the last round had finished 3.5-4.5, instead of 2.5-5.5, then the fourth survival spot would have been between three teams all on 8 match points and 28.5 game points - not sure how the tie-break would have worked there.

The next tie break would have been points made in the original pool, thus giving at least some comfort to those teams who made results against teams from the upper pool only to "lose" them in the demotion pool. On that basis Poisoned Pawns would have survived, as their captain explained to me at the start of play yesterday.

Some years ago, but for one season only, points made in the original pool was the first tiebreak (ahead of gamepoints) which I thought was fairer. Vive la difference! Mind you, I was enormously impressed with KJCA and must admit that I had rather written them off before the weekend. It has been the best "last weekend save" yet in the second division, or arguably in any division.

Not sure what this means in terms of the relative strengths of the divisions and the teams, but it does seem that there is a fair amount of bouncing up and down going on in terms of promotions and relegation. Has that always been the case?

Yes! And it is no great surprise, since, unlike professional sports where money talks, it is not as though relegation necessarily means that the team composition will be affected. Many teams cry in anguish but ultimately shrug their shoulders and carry on. If Poisoned Pawns start in division 3 next year, they will certainly be back in div 2 in the near future. BCM Dragons, who only seemed to field their best teams when it was already too late, should bounce back to division one - in fact all four teams relegated from division one should be back sooner or later, though probably not all of them immediately (here I agree with Joey that division two is remarkably fluid, and serious fluctuations in finishing positions can occur. Gambling addicts would find it to be the more fun division to lay bets on).

[Andrew Bak]

The prize list appears to be here:

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/how_to_enter.htm

Thanks, I've been trying to find this for ages!

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Mind you, I was enormously impressed with KJCA and must admit that I had rather written them off before the weekend. It has been the best "last weekend save" yet in the second division, or arguably in any division.

Barbican Youth didn't too too badly either.

[Alan Walton]

Last season we stayed in the second division by the very last game which lasted just under 7 hours, where our player had a very difficult endgame to convert, a draw would have relegated us, fortunately he won it and now we are in the 1st Div

[Jonathan Rogers]

Last season we stayed in the second division by the very last game which lasted just under 7 hours, where our player had a very difficult endgame to convert, a draw would have relegated us, fortunately he won it and now we are in the 1st Div

Yes. And Anglian Avengers were almost relegated in 2009/10 and then finished second in 2010/11. As Joey said above, it is a very fluid division!

[Jonathan Rogers]

Mind you, I was enormously impressed with KJCA and must admit that I had rather written them off before the weekend. It has been the best "last weekend save" yet in the second division, or arguably in any division.

Barbican Youth didn't too too badly either.

Thank you, this is true. But KJCA were much more impressive. Unlike us, they had to win all three and hope that other results went their way; a last round draw between Poisoned Pawns and ADs (the latter of whom had nothing to play for) instead of a win 4.5-3.5 for ADs would still have shut them out. It is that bit easier to summon the spirit if escape is at least entirely in your own hands, as it was for us.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Last season we stayed in the second division by the very last game which lasted just under 7 hours, where our player had a very difficult endgame to convert, a draw would have relegated us, fortunately he won it and now we are in the 1st Div

Yes. And Anglian Avengers were almost relegated in 2009/10 and then finished second in 2010/11. As Joey said above, it is a very fluid division!

True, but I got the impression that Kings Head ran away with the division this year. Maybe their matches were closer than I thought and they just happened to win most of them (before the final weekend at least). I don't entirely agree with Joey's "a lucky few able to rise above the ranks and get promotion" for division 3. If three of the four teams that were relegated from division 2 the previous year were able to bounce straight back up, surely that means the rest of the third division were largely unable to stop them doing that? For three teams to each get promoted twice, that can't be luck can it? I think there is a gulf in rating somewhere in division three, it is just not entirely clear where.

[David Robertson]

If the Spirit of Atticus vs KJCA Kings match in the last round had finished 3.5-4.5, instead of 2.5-5.5, then the fourth survival spot would have been between three teams all on 8 match points and 28.5 game points - not sure how the tie-break would have worked there.

Jesus wept! I'm glad I didn't know this at the time, otherwise you might have needed to scrape me off the ceiling! I had yet to make my second move in this 'winner-takes-all' match when I glanced to my left to find we were already 0-1 down. Andy Smith on Bd 5 had carelessly (alternative adverbs are available) left his phone on. Of course, it rang. Andy's youthful and well-mannered opponent didn't seem too bothered. But his colleague had the presence of mind to suggest that this was no time for noble gestures. So Andy had to walk. Fair enough. Obviously this materially disturbed how our side now went about their games. Not good.

The mess did not die down though. Because Andy was now 'free', some clown from a Div 3 team, whose opponent had not shown up, took it upon himself to indicate that he wanted a 'friendly'. So he stood at the end of our tables gesticulating at the 'free' players. Understandably Andy had a few other things on his mind - some loon doing semaphore, not being among them. Undeterred, this guy went off and called in an arbiter. The pair arrived back at our tables while some closet hugger-mugger took place next to my board. From the increasingly troubled look on the arbiter's face, I thought for a minute he was going to disqualify me! What had I done? I began to scroll through a list of my transgressions: being rude to arbiters? offending Sean Hewitt? bollocking Wood Green? I was still racking through the list when I saw the arbiter shake his head, and beat a hasty and baffled retreat. The end? Not at all. This bloke carried on, accosting every passing person Ancient Mariner-style, trying to explain his intentions. But everyone fled. And eventually he wandered off too, thereby ending the floor show.

Is all of this a preamble to excuses for our defeat? Not a bit of it. The phone incident was obviously a big set-back for us; and likely a big lift for KJCA. But the youngsters out-played us, and fully deserved their win. They were conceding roughly 50 per board as well - that's years, not grade points. So well done to them! Eight points would usually be enough for survival. But not this year, not for us anyway.

One footnote: this is the first time in over 40 years of team play that I've ever been relegated. And I don't like it. But we'll be back. Maybe.