4NCL North 2013-14

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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David Robertson
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by David Robertson » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:45 pm

Not a bad idea - in principle. But the consequences in practice invite caution. Assuming a voluntary allocation of teams to 3M and 3S, one might imagine that 3S would thrive while 3M would take on something of the tenuous characteristics of 3N currently. A better idea, medium-term, might be for 3N to stabilise its viability, offering a more attractive prospect to some teams currently in 3S. If a modest shift into 3N were to occur, then there would be a compelling case to locate 3S at Sunningdale/Wokefield, and 3N across northern/north midland venues.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:22 pm

Increased regionalisation is likely to lead to decreased utilisation of hotel rooms which in turn has an adverse affect the ability of the 4NCL to source locations. It also takes away one of the key attractions (for me) of the 4NCL - playing new opponents for other parts for the country.

I know that Northern folk have had an issue travelling to the 4NCL proper (hence the birth of the Northern league) but we've never seen such reluctance elsewhere in the country. It doesn't mean its not there of course, but I'd be wary of destroying a really successful event.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:52 pm

I wouldn't support a split into 3 division threes, I think 2 is enough

I would support a move to venues further south for Div 3 south, as long as it didn't mean a move south for Divs 1 and 2, and as long as that is what the southern teams actually wanted

However, venues for 2014-15 are fixed now, so it wouldn't happen next season - long enough to canvass views at a captains meeting this season
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Andrew Wainwright
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Andrew Wainwright » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:47 pm

Great to see the 4NCL Div 3 North growing in numbers. There were certainly quetsions as to whether it would survive after Year 1 when I think we had 8 teams and 2 of them were from Bradford. Good memories though of some fun wekeends away and some good chess. Personal highlights:

1. Camping for two nights on the last weekend as we could not get a hotel room - decided against my better judgement to share a tent with the notorious Gary Corcoran - neither night did he actually spend in the tent and I think he was found collapsed in the hotel lobby on one of the nights!

2. Winston Williams walking through a Bog before round 2 on the very first weekend and deciding that whilst his trainers were drying he would walk around the playing hall with bright blue carrier bags around his feet (how his opponent that day (Mick Norris) kept a straight face I have no idea).

3. Me and Andy Bak being drawn against each other in the Bradford A vs Bradford B match and deciding to try out 1.b4 - b5 for a laugh, unfortunately my 1.b4 was not strong enough for his 1.b5!!!

Keep up the good work lads.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:35 pm

Andrew Wainwright wrote:2. Winston Williams walking through a Bog before round 2 on the very first weekend and deciding that whilst his trainers were drying he would walk around the playing hall with bright blue carrier bags around his feet (how his opponent that day (Mick Norris) kept a straight face I have no idea).
I was more concerned that he kept playing moves I didn't like in the Dutch, and keeping concentrated into the 6th hour was harder than keeping a straight face - a well fought draw, no idea whether the moves played were any good, but a very enjoyable game
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Paul Robson
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Paul Robson » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:50 pm

1. Camping for two nights on the last weekend as we could not get a hotel room - decided against my better judgement to share a tent with the notorious Gary Corcoran - neither night did he actually spend in the tent and I think he was found collapsed in the hotel lobby on one of the nights!
Just have to mention the time Gary was at Blackpool Congress and trying to figure out the phone number of the girl he had left that morning. Once we remembered her name,"She was called Alison and was a police women", (fancy dress perhaps ?), thought we had cracked it . Unfortunately Mr Corcoran had seventeen Alison's listed on his phone , not to mention how many Allison's were listed . :roll:

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:14 am

"It also takes away one of the key attractions (for me) of the 4NCL - playing new opponents for other parts for the country."

Absolutely - I recall being a bit fed up when I drove 170 miles to one 4NCL weekend and played two people that I saw regularly in my local league! On the plus side, when I played Guildford, I met the only player on their team that I had never played.

Most of the players in England are concentrated in the South-East, so if players in the North can be persuaded to play, then a separate section seems a good start, but you do want to assimilate everybody quickly. One of the attractions of 4NCL is to be playing in the same venue as strong GMs, so you can tell people you play in the same competition as them.

David Pardoe
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by David Pardoe » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:32 am

I`d agree that two Div 3 leagues makes good sense....ie, `north` & `south`...
If you were talking of the `north` section being those teams based north of Stoke- Nottingham-Lincoln, say..you are covering a pretty good geographical area..and it certainly encourages more northern participation, which has got to be good. Seeing teams from the northeast taking part is definately good news...
The venues that the northern teams play at this season look pretty good. If numbers are sustained or grow, then I`d be keen to see another northern venue, perhaps at Harrogate, in place of the `March` trip to Daventry. We really dont need more than one clash with the `south` section, and the Finals w/e provides the perfect opportunity to do battle.
I`d just say that the pairings for these north-south clashes might benefit from factoring in `average team strength` to reduce clashes between badly matched teams, but, as the northern league grows, this current distortion might reduce.
A key problem for such events is travel, costs, etc....so finding a good distribution of venues which caters well for the teams, is a key point, I believe. Sunningdale, Leicester, Sheffield, Birmingham, etc..might offer good typical spreads, and offer a variety of potentially good venues for Div 1 & 2.
The 4NCL event has grown so large that finding single venues to host the whole event is probably impractical.
However, the Finals at PUMA Hinckley Island, giving all teams the chance to gather together for a grand finalle, I believe is absolutely desirable, even if it means some teams/players actually staying at other local hotels.
I think many players really look forward to that Finals weekend, as a great highlight of the season.
We`ll see how things pan out, and what players/captains put forward.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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Greg Breed
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:51 am

David Pardoe wrote:I think many players really look forward to that Finals weekend, as a great highlight of the season.
Yep that's a real highlight for me and puts a nice finish to the season.
Hatch End A Captain (Hillingdon League)
Harrow Captain (Middlesex League)

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:50 pm

I see Holmes Chapel have confirmed, but only 1 team showing fom NE England, and nothing yet from Jorvik

12 confirmed teams is great though :D
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:09 am

Jorvik seems pretty certain - he just started organising it a few days back and seemingly plenty of players. Most of the best York ones are of course off playing for white rose I/II :) (Or Bradford in one case!).

Mike Truran
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:00 pm

Jorvik entry now both confirmed and paid. I have email confirmation of two NE England teams, so it's looking fairly good for 14 teams.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:10 pm

14 teams confirmed, that is pretty good - well done to Mike and all at the 4NCL for sticking with this
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Andrew Bak
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Andrew Bak » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:17 pm

Mick Norris wrote:14 teams confirmed, that is pretty good - well done to Mike and all at the 4NCL for sticking with this
Indeed, it would have been very easy to give up after the 2nd or 3rd year and call it a failure.

It will be interesting how an expanded Div 3 North will affect who gets promoted from Div 3 this year.

Mick Norris
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Re: 4NCL North 2013-14

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:29 pm

I think the (first teams) of relegated NE England and Spirit of Atticus were always going to be competitive, but now they are less likely to have played a few weaker teams, which may make a difference to the tiebreak?
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