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Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:09 am
by Roger de Coverly
Perhaps unfair to include this under 4NCL as it's really FIDE's doing or possibly the ECF's, but you wouldn't want introducing new players (to the 4NCL) to take priority over the smooth running of the rating system.
4NCL website wrote:4NCL registrations
10.4.14 - As a result of FIDE requirements for rating the event, we can no longer accept players for registration or as wildcards without being given a date of birth unless the player already has a FIDE identification number - Dave Thomas.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:27 am
by Richard Bates
10.4.15 - As a result of FIDE requirements for rating the event, we can no longer accept players for registration or as wildcards without being given a name* unless the player already has a FIDE identification number.
*although "John Smith" will be accepted
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:38 am
by Phil Neatherway
What is the barrier to participation alluded to in the title of this thread?
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:58 am
by Roger de Coverly
Phil Neatherway wrote:What is the barrier to participation alluded to in the title of this thread?
If you aren't allowed to take part because you cannot be registered, that is a barrier.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:01 am
by Phil Neatherway
but why can't you be registered?
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:06 am
by Sean Hewitt
Phil Neatherway wrote:but why can't you be registered?
What about people who don't have a date of birth?
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:07 am
by Roger de Coverly
Phil Neatherway wrote:but why can't you be registered?
If an individual refuses to have their date of birth disclosed to the 4NCL, or the person doing the registering doesn't know what it is, they cannot be registered.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:21 am
by Phil Neatherway
Do you know of any such cases? Personally, I don't but perhaps I don't know enough players to for my experience to be a meaningful sample.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:33 am
by PeterFarr
Phil Neatherway wrote:Do you know of any such cases? Personally, I don't but perhaps I don't know enough players to for my experience to be a meaningful sample.
Having D.O.B. is a reasonable request from a FIDE rating point of view isn't it? It provides a simple guard against mistaken identity, and may also help (a little) in anti-cheating measures.
One might also ask if it's really worth a team taking on a player who is so precious as to refuse to reveal their date of birth?
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:41 am
by Michael Farthing
PeterFarr wrote:Phil Neatherway wrote:Do you know of any such cases? Personally, I don't but perhaps I don't know enough players to for my experience to be a meaningful sample.
Having D.O.B. is a reasonable request from a FIDE rating point of view isn't it? It provides a simple guard against mistaken identity, and may also help (a little) in anti-cheating measures.
One might also ask if it's really worth a team taking on a player who is so precious as to refuse to reveal their date of birth?
I taught in Swaziland for a year in the 1970s and had a pupil whose date of birth was simply made up for the school register. The following year it was completely different (different day, month and year). He genuinely didn't know his birth date, and this was not unusual. So it is conceivably possible that a genuine problem might arise. Hopefully any official facing such a problem would come up with an appropriately creative solution - though he should perhaps stress to the player the need to remember the solution accurately for the future.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 am
by Roger de Coverly
PeterFarr wrote:
Having D.O.B. is a reasonable request from a FIDE rating point of view isn't it? It provides a simple guard against mistaken identity, and may also help (a little) in anti-cheating measures.
It's a perfectly reasonable request, but it appears FIDE have now made it compulsory, by refusing to issue a FIN without it. For identity protection and no doubt other reasons, the date of birth isn't displayed on the FIDE rating website. All age based FIDE competitions use year of birth as the test, so that's all the information they really need.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:29 am
by Steve Rooney
Interestingly, the Staffordshire congress entry form asks everyone for their date of birth. Many congresses do this just for juniors/seniors if there are age-related prizes.
Like others commenting above however, I can't see that there should be any objection to providing this information.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:34 am
by Roger de Coverly
Steve Rooney wrote:I can't see that there should be any objection to providing this information.
There is a valid objection. Many websites use date of birth as a key to enable access to personal information. Anyone attempting to maliciously attack personal information is unlikely to get very far without establishing a date of birth, so putting a certain amount of security around it has some validity.
It's only really for new players that ECF grading requires a month and year of birth and even there it's only because of the separate nature of the adult and junior calculations and to establish eligibility for junior and perhaps senior prizes.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:49 am
by Andrew Camp
Sean Hewitt wrote:Phil Neatherway wrote:but why can't you be registered?
What about people who don't have a date of birth?
I'm quietly confident that they'll still let Keith play.
Re: Barriers to participation
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:45 pm
by Graham Borrowdale
Roger's concerns are theoretically valid, so I would suggest that anyone sharing them should invent a different date of birth for their FIDE record, a bit like a royal birthday.
Of more concern is why teams should introduce additional players for the final weekend in their final promotion push, thereby displacing their loyal players who have turned out all season. Since this is a league, should there be a 'new registrations window', a bit like football's 'transfer window'?