4NCL North 2014-15

[Mick Norris]

Redworth is my favourite venue, and I was delighted with the improved playing room this year, but it is at the limit of the distance/time I can travel on a Saturday morning, and I haven't done the driving myself the last 2 years

It may, therefore, be a venue too far for those who are further than Greater Manchester, albeit it would be a pity for the North East team if their local venue was dropped

Hopefully, new venues can be found for next year (particularly on the east side of the Pennines) - I'm not expecting to see Harrogate or Crewe return though

[MartinCarpenter]

Well, I do seem to keep winning at Redworth for some reason Still, if Redworth Hall is an obstacle time wise for a non trivial number of (potential) teams then surely somewhere like Harrogate (Ripon? Ilkley?!) would be a sane compromise.

Oh, looking at the fine report from the Atticus teams on the 4NCL website I feel oblidged to report that my one game against Michael Johnson turned entirely silly! Not all my fault....

As for more potential teams, well there is whole - quite healthy - second divsion to the Yorkshire league which hasn't really been tapped into yet, along with a really rather struggling third one. Basically only a very small handful from York C/D playing anywhere right now. The third division teams would get firmly thumped in the current league mind, so not sure. Some of the 2nd division teams would compete OK.

[Mick Norris]

Well, I do seem to keep winning at Redworth for some reason Still, if Redworth Hall is an obstacle time wise for a non trivial number of (potential) teams then surely somewhere like Harrogate (Ripon? Ilkley?!) would be a sane compromise.

Well, we need to keep Redworth, then

I can't see us getting Harrogate back, although it was a great location, they can book out the hotel without chess players - any ideas you have on potential hotel venues, Mike would no doubt like to hear from you

[Mick Norris]

As for more potential teams, well there is whole - quite healthy - second divsion to the Yorkshire league which hasn't really been tapped into yet, along with a really rather struggling third one. Basically only a very small handful from York C/D playing anywhere right now. The third division teams would get firmly thumped in the current league mind, so not sure. Some of the 2nd division teams would compete OK.

That would be great, we need more teams in any event, but certainly a few more weaker teams would be a big help

[David Robertson]

any ideas you have on potential hotel venues, Mike would no doubt like to hear from you

Not from some, he wouldn't

[David Pardoe]

Yes, Redworth Hall is indeed a fine venue...and gives the NE, Yorks, and Bradford a reasonable `North East` location...
Travel across from Merseyside is a fair trip..but its all M62 + M1 motorway. The main problem might be if the weather is bad...or motorway holdup.. So far we have been quite lucky... I keep my radio on for traffic updates.
My advice/suggestion is for players to get a good nights sleep on Friday, so they can set off bright and early on Saturday morning.....a trifle boring some will think. We all know that Saturday morning feeling, after a long week, when getting out of bed is a struggle. Those ultra keen football fans, who travel to `away` games, probably get the same vibes...
For those who opt to take a long weekend break, either staying Friday night, or Sunday night, if the weather is half decent, I`d recommend a visit to either Weardale or Teasdale Valley`s... and Richmond/Swaledale are also very scenic, for those who like such things.. Certainly a drive around these areas in the summer months is a fine treat...

The NE teams have got the same problem in reverse coming to Buxton & Pott Shrigley...but it is a real pleasure to see all these teams meet up...and its only once or twice a year.
Maybe a compromise could be found by playing 5-hour matches, instead of the longer 6 hour sessions..and starting play at 2.30pm perhaps?
Harrogate is almost a `must have`...surely one of the hotels there could be hired...otherwise, maybe we pay a supplement and go for a smart place in Bingley/Derby/Sheffield..
My view is that we really need to look at reconnecting with the `south` for a grand finals weekend at some stage....one or two venues in or near Telford might work.. Hinckley still might be best if something could be sorted. There is a large Best Western not far from Hinckley Island, which might take the Div 1 and 2 matches...
I still think they need to offer `chess meal deals` at these venues, to encourage more players/teams to eat in....maybe this could be discussed with captains....a BB&E deal, offering a good 2-course discount, and some `specials` could well work favourably. Not sure if the Mercure, Hilton, or Holiday Inn groups could offer good deals. I did see some good looking hotels near Derby, but they probably would cost a premium rate, which players might baulk at.... I`ll try and check later.
More teams in our `North` league...yes please, including a delegation from `Ferry...` and maybe a switch from some `south` teams. Certainly if we could fix up some venues around Derby or Sheffield, it might be an incentive.
One possibility might be the superb Breadsall Priory Marriott Hotel & Country Club near Derby. It has 104 rooms and set in fine country surroundings, It simply oozes with class, and would make a great venue for the North Finals weekend. But, my guess is the price might just be at a premium to our usual discount deals. Something to think about perhaps.

Not an easy task....but hopefully we can take things forward with support from our chess groups.

[MartinCarpenter]

You know, if things remained as they are this year next time then playing on board 1-3 in 3N you'd get to play ~9 players closely clustered around 180.

That's actually a rather attractive sort of field for people round that level because its really quite hard to arrange anywhere else. A bunch of weaker teams might push it down to 5/6, like I guess 3S is right now.

Of course that's rather selfish and 3N really does ideally need some more teams

[Paul Robson]

Don't forget some of our North East players live a hour North of Redworth Hall and folks are considering that a home venue for North East players. Why don't we try Newcastle next year?
We and those in the South West probably have the longest travel so .....we need to be first on the list if complaining on travel time . What fun a 4/5 hour drive home is on Sunday evenings ,speed limits reduced ,rain ,snow etc , ah the joys

[David Pardoe]

Not quite sure about Newcastle, but certainly Durham for a `Northern` Finals weekend at one of the University Sites might work a treat.
That could leave the possibility of Sheffield for the other slot. In fact, a re-unified north/south Finals in Sheffield could work well.. I`m sure a suitable venue could be found there...say for 2016/17 perhaps.

[MartinCarpenter]

Newcastle/Durham definitely very fine cities

I never thought Redworth hall was a 'home' venue for all of the NE players. The thing is that the travel pain on the other weekends from the NE is so bad that you have to have a team happy to do 3+ hour trips anyway So stretching the travel time from the Redworth Hall leg from 1 hour to 90 minutes or so might not be objectively too awful if it got the league some more teams.
(You definitely wouldn't do it otherwise of course!).

I can see how it wouldn't look good from the NE perspective though.

[Alan Walton]

The irony of all this is the 4NCL North was set up because "Northerners" complained that the 4NCL was to south orientated

Now when they have what they wanted they start complaining about travelling distances in the North

Mike, can you created a 4NCL for every county in the country, I think people should be happy with this

Come on everybody, we 3Cs entered the 4NCL in 1999/2000, the reason for this was to better ourselves as players and a club, travelling was a problem but only when weekends started to be in Sunningdale and Wokefield Park, hence eventually we withdrew from the league, the players who still wanted to play went to other teams, when it came back to purely Midland venues we reentered

If you are complaining about travelling distances then I would say the 4NCL isn't for you, just play local leagues and congresses

[David Robertson]

If you are complaining about travelling distances then I would say the 4NCL isn't for you, just play local leagues and congresses

Missing every point I made in my initial post on the matter.

People unhappy with travelling time/distance have already made their choice. They don't travel. Geddit? The 4NCL isn't for them; they don't play. Now what are you going to do? They aren't comparing themselves to others; they're comparing alternative uses of their own time.

Those of us sufficiently committed will, and do, travel. I doubt we need hardship lectures to encourage us. But since the original discussion concerned venues, fresh teams and future developments, it seems pretty important - to me, at least - to pass on the wholly inconvenient fact that key players (ie some drivers) in otherwise committed squads were balking at the task. By all means let the 4NCL plan forward disregarding what I say. Meanwhile players will make their own decisions, some to our collective disadvantage.

[David Pardoe]

I`ll just say that 3Cs (and others) would be more than welcome to enter a team(s) in the Northern section. We could do with another few teams to give a better weighting, and add to the competition.
Both `north` and `south` have challenges with various aspects of these events, and the aim should be to try to make the offerings as attractive as possible. Hopefully captains will discuss various options with respective teams and come up with good constructive proposals to put to 4NCL.
For the `south`, more variety of venues I`m sure would be desirable, and I`m also sure that places like Wokingham and Sunningdale had a fair amount of support from the southern quarter. But I can see why teams from the `north` might find these difficult....

[Alan Walton]

The reason why 3Cs have never (and most probably never will) entered the northern league is mainly down to the wider variety of players we get playing in the normal league

Many of our players play the participants in the Northern League in local leagues and congresses, so going "down south" (or to the Midlands) offers this variety and means as players hopefully improve more

[MartinCarpenter]

Makes sense that. The travel isn't even much different for you next year. I don't get that many repeats in 3N, but then I do spend my days in the Yorkshire league hiding on a low board

With 3S going down to just a few teams next season, I guess you could make a case for alternating between that and 3N to get different opposition.

The north east people don't have this option of course. Their travel to Buxton (from Newcastle) is already not that far off Manchester to Sunningdale