Hinckley Visit

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Mike Truran
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Mike Truran » Tue May 05, 2015 11:35 am

It rather sounds as if the ECF read out a list of demands.
It did not. Don't be mischievous.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 05, 2015 12:00 pm

Chris Fegan (as quoted by Carl) wrote: A series of propositions were put by the ECF to Carl on a joint way forward
In what way is a series of propositions radically different to a set of demands?

Actually I think it would be better for the credibility of the official forum if the power of Directors to remove content was curtailed and control placed in representatives of non executive representatives of the voting membership. In other words have a nominally elected committee parallel to those for Finance and Governance to act as overseers.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue May 05, 2015 12:11 pm

They are quite different Roger but none of the suggestions were acceptable.
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Mike Truran
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Mike Truran » Tue May 05, 2015 12:16 pm

Well, I suspect you know full well what the difference between a proposal and a demand is, and this was just one more of your sly little distortions that you hoped to slide through without anyone noticing.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue May 05, 2015 12:35 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: In what way is a series of propositions radically different to a set of demands?
Sorry, Roger, but that sounds like something that escaped from Soheil's thread.

In my naivity I had assumed that it was the role of the moderator was to manage and comment on individual posts or a series of posts that might benefit from being edited. How is that simple comments so easily escalate into a blood feud?

Are the ECF's moderators not competant or not empowered to properly perform the job entrusted to them without the close supervision of an ECF director?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 05, 2015 1:08 pm

Michael Flatt wrote: Are the ECF's moderators not competant or not empowered to properly perform the job entrusted to them without the close supervision of an ECF director?
I don't know that anyone has suggested they aren't, although the outing of Sue Dunham did seem to take its time. I think it remains the case that any thread becoming critical of the ECF or the performance of its Directors is liable to be removed. That is, after all, a stated point of having an official forum.

ECF Directors ignore their own Forum or any form of communication for that matter, but then make bombastic statements about the importance of an official Forum and the godlike role of the ECF in English chess.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue May 05, 2015 1:28 pm

I have moved on from this matter as you too should now do please Roger :roll:

The other place will show through their actions long term as to how we should all proceed.
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John McKenna
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by John McKenna » Tue May 05, 2015 1:58 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:I would suggest that web site of the year is unlikely.
The website, like the ECF itself, could be a lot better - less passive, more engaging, less remote and elitist more interactive and popular, as could the ECF itself.

The pull-down menu items across the top are its best feature in my estimation as they are useful but they hide the light under a bushel, so to speak. The main content of the front page is often outdated and only of passing, not great, interest to the ordinary chessplayer.

Of course, the 4NCL will not loom large there very often since I don't think it is regarded by the ECF as a brother organisation, to be celebrated, but a bastard one to be tolerated, but that's just in my view of it.

The European Seniors Championship currently going on in Greece did not feature prominently when I last looked - no doubt is there somewhere if you dig a bit deeper.

The tone of the website seems to be a bit pedestrian and low-key and that probably reflects the lack of resources that can be given to it so it bumbles along in fits and starts. When the British Championships are held it bursts into life for a couple of weeks and then fades back into relative obscurity.

On the far left of the menu array across the top is the FORUM - a take it or leave it kind of option. Given that it is the one way the membership could interact in real time with the ECF shouldn't it have been given a more prominent and central setting? That it was just lumped in with the other menu options gives the impression of a bland wet-blanket approach and attitude to the outside world and not a very welcoming or engaging one.
Michael Flatt wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote: In what way is a series of propositions radically different to a set of demands?
Sorry, Roger, but that sounds like something that escaped from Soheil's thread.

In my naivity I had assumed that it was the role of the moderator was to manage and comment on individual posts or a series of posts that might benefit from being edited. How is that simple comments so easily escalate into a blood feud?

Are the ECF's moderators not competant or not empowered to properly perform the job entrusted to them without the close supervision of an ECF director?
Michael, I believe that the ECF moderators are competent and empowered "to properly perform the job entrusted to them without close supervision of an ECF director". However, their job, as I see it, is not the one you seem to think it is. As I posted elsewhere on the forum - the ECF, as a body, cannot really communicate via a forum - all they did was put some Samaritan-style earpieces and PR-type mouthpieces in place to give a false impression of actually listening and responding.
In other words they are really censors and doctrinists - more akin to the moderators of the Church of Scotland than tribunes of the people and are not there to help meaningful communication but to hinder it and turn it to their own purposes.

For example, the attempt to discuss this matter at the recent Finance Meeting was brazenly manipulated into AOB then talked out. What does that tell us about the way the ECF operates?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by John McKenna » Tue May 05, 2015 2:55 pm

The ECF website suddenly has "Club of the Year" and "Grand Prix Leader Boards" on the homepage!

Listening and "learning all the time"?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Michael Flatt
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue May 05, 2015 3:19 pm

Those two announcements are non-contentious and fit more comfortably on a website than a discussion forum.

I imagine that maintaining the ECF website and posting new content can be quite time absorbing. My own experience of running a club and congress website is that few people think it necessary to provide content. It is often assumed that the webmaster will originate content, edit and post it himself.

How does stuff get onto the ECF website? Is it down solely to the webmaster or is there a team of volunteers to share the load?

Is there a supervisory panel to edit and authorise the various articles and news items?

John McKenna
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by John McKenna » Tue May 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Thanks for your response, Michael.

"Those two announcements are non-contentious and fit more comfortably on a website than a discussion forum..."

I agree, but was merely trying to point out that when I looked earlier today those two items were either not on the homepage or not very prominent. Shortly after I bemoaned the lack of popular content those two items seemed to appear as if by magic, or coincidence.

"How does stuff get onto the ECF website? Is it down solely to the webmaster or is there a team of volunteers to share the load?"

"Is there a supervisory panel to edit and authorise the various articles and news items?"

If you ask me that information is probably classified, however, I'd guess there is probably a fairly close working relationship between those directing the ECF and the webmaster - they probably have a formulaic, slowly-rolling-news agenda supplemented by the odd off-piste excursion.

Why not go compare the ECF website with those of the other federations in this wide and wonderful digital world we are operating in. I'd be interested in where you think the ECF's ranks alongside the rest. Join FIDE and see the world!
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Mike Truran
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Mike Truran » Tue May 05, 2015 8:30 pm

PS I must say I do admire The Great Deceptionist's ability to ignore any occasion when one of his porky pies has been spotted and just move on as if nothing had happened.

Respect! :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue May 05, 2015 8:51 pm

Mike Truran wrote:PS I must say I do admire The Great Deceptionist's ability to ignore any occasion when one of his porky pies has been spotted and just move on as if nothing had happened.

Respect! :oops: :oops: :oops:
It is however a good job I am controlling myself to keep silent on some of the 'suggestions' that were made then :!:
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 05, 2015 9:00 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote: It is however a good job I am controlling myself to keep silent on some of the 'suggestions' that were made then
Hence the inference that the propositions were of the format of attempting to make an offer that couldn't be refused.

The participants seem to have agreed to treat the matters discussed as a official secret. If the next ECF meeting of voting membership fails to kick the issue of communication into the long grass, perhaps someone will raise it.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Hinckley Visit

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue May 05, 2015 9:16 pm

John McKenna wrote:Of course, the 4NCL will not loom large there very often since I don't think it is regarded by the ECF as a brother organisation, to be celebrated, but a bastard one to be tolerated, but that's just in my view of it.
If you're right, then the 4NCL has improved its status with the ECF over the years. In its early years, the BCF tried to set up a rival to it, to usurp it. The rival league never got off the ground. Does that remind you of any current activities by the ECF?
Last edited by Ian Thompson on Tue May 05, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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